Schneier on Security: Recording the Police
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That's usually the caveat I put when I make that statement, but I forgot to that time (and again, most of my govt work is in public and I would fall under that).
There are times when privacy is essential for govt workers but those times rarely during public interaction, and when they are, it's usually because the tasks are sensitive (an interview with a rape victim for example).
Privacy has to be viewed in the context of relative power. For example, the government has a lot more power than the people. So privacy for the government increases their power and increases the power imbalance between government and the people; it decreases liberty ... Privacy for the people increases their power. It also increases liberty, because it reduces the power imbalance between government and the people
Bruce is absolutely right: if nobody watches the watchmen, you can only expect trouble... filming police prevents things like this: http://www.gifbin.com/bin/112009/1258398254_police-brutality... and this: http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1238065175_cop-pushes-biker.gif
The reason people complain about speeding tickets is that speed limits are inconsistently enforced. Speed limits are usually about 10 mph too low for normal conditions, and enforcement reflects that. Yet in some places, enforcement is strict, and it's impossible to predict where without local knowledge. For instance, on a major road near my apartment that goes out to some major suburbs, there is a little stretch going through a separate municipality where the speed limit drops inexplicably and is very strictly enforced, practically 24/7. All the locals know it, but woe to the out-of-towner who fails to heed the locals' example and hit the brakes.
But at least that's consistent. Where I grew up, inconsistency was the key. You never saw them set up twice in the same place, unless the speed limit was especially unreasonable at that place. Enforcement was so random that everybody ignored it, and everybody had paranoid theories. (It's the end of the month; they're just filling their quotas. My ex-wife's brother is a cop, I bet he asked his buddy to go after me. Goddamn white cops don't like seeing a Mexican with a pretty white girl. Goddamn Mexican cops don't like seeing a white guy with a pretty Mexican girl.) There was no pragmatic benefit to ticketing people for driving safe, normal speeds, so naturally everybody came up with unflattering theories and nobody changed their driving behavior.
So yeah, traffic citations can be bullshit even if the driver is guilty.
I talked to a few of my neighbors and this was the first time they had seen fines given. I along with others parked the wrong direction for at least 13 months without a fine. So, either police never patrolled our neighborhood during that time or they decided to apply the law only when they feel like it, i.e. to meet their quota. Revenue generation at its finest!
Anyways, you know you can get a fine for parking the wrong way, yet you did it. If you said you don't agree with that rule, I might concur. What exactly did they do wrong? I hope that since then everyone is parking correctly. Isn't that the whole point of fining people?
What bothered me about the whole thing was inconsistent enforcement. It's okay to park that way for over a year and then one day it's not. Enforcing an ordinance or law only when it's convenient (to hit a quota) for the officer makes me think the particular law isn't about safety but about revenue generation. If it was truly about safety it would be enforced all of the time.
They keep the speed limit like that and set up traps all the time. Laws != morals, and when the police are treated as a revenue center, it's bad.
A lot of it has to with "equal enforcement" - take a look at mj enforcement in CA as described in http://reason.com/blog/2010/07/01/california-naacp-backs-mar... (leave aside for a moment the wisdom/necessity of the drug war) - I'm sure most of the people arrested for mj broke the law and deserved the consequences. but it as a negative effect on the targeted segment and not the population aa a whole. That puts one segment at a disadvantage in other aspects of life (getting a job, getting housing, etc).
BTW, don't know why you got downvoted, you simply asked a question.
Not much connection there, even for reasonable laws the sentences are often a bit on the extreme side.
Example: Police officers raid a [whatever] belonging to an organized crime syndicate. Some dude is standing by with a video camera as the officers carry the evidence to their cars. Two weeks later, every officer involved finds that his house has burned to the ground.
If you're going to send guys with guns around - assuming that they have the authority to use violence to conduct their jobs - and they're being paid out of my tax dollars, and claiming to be part of an organization that represents me; I damn sure expect to be able to monitor them.
Too bad. You can't give people guns and mace and handcuffs and a "legal right" to use force, and then say "you can't ask them to be accountable for their actions."
Banning accountability is a big step in the wrong direction.
They also get paid and they are not required to put their life at risk.
It's not only Police. In the local news today it's "ticket inspectors" using unreasonable force: "Brouwer says too much force not the ticket" [0] ~ http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/brouwer-says-too-much-forc...
[0] The Age, Nick McKenzie 2010DEC22
Don't wanna get tackled by a ticket inspector? Buy a ticket. Or if you don't buy a ticket, fess up and accept your fine.
Do we know that for sure? In the US at least, generally workers in those positions specifically do not have the power to apprehend people - if there is a problem, you call the police or the designated security personnel. It's really easy for a person without the proper martial training to unnecessarily hurt someone, or get hurt themselves.
"In New South Wales, revenue protection on its rail network is primarily the responsibility of Transit Officers. Like their Victorian counterparts, these transit officers also carry out security patrols on trains and railway stations, with the power of issuing on-the-spot fines for minor offences, and even to use "reasonable force" to make arrests."
Which I read as saying that ticket officers in both NSW and Victoria (where this story takes place) are allowed to use reasonable force.
(In America, of course, things are different. For instance the BART has its own police force, which 999,999 times out of every million can be guaranteed not to shoot you in the back while you're lying on the ground.)
I only got into this whole argument because the OP sounded surprised that ticket inspectors, of all people, were getting into unreasonable-force situations, as if it were crazy for ticket inspectors to be using force at all. I only wished to point out that it's reasonable for ticket inspectors to use reasonable force, and hence it's inevitable that eventually one of 'em is going to wind up using excessive force. But I'm starting to regret ever getting into this discussion since there's a much nicer one going on in another thread about the heat death of the universe.
But actually in most common-law jurisdictions, citizens do have arrest powers, which is why we have the term "Citizen's arrest":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest
Which (if you look up the bit about Victoria) would probably apply in this case even if the ticket inspector were not specifically empowered to make arrests.
With very limited non sworn powers.
"... To deprive a person of their liberty is a serious matter. Authorised officers should only consider arrest as a last resort and when contemplating doing so, consistent with arrest powers under the Transport Act. The following guidelines must be followed. Persons will only be arrested under Section 219 of the Transport Act 1983 as a last resort. Specifically an authorised officer must believe on reasonable grounds that a person has committed an offence against the Transport Act 1983 or any regulation made under that Act and arrest is necessary for one or more of the following reasons: ..."
but the act also warns
"... If an arrest is made outside the strict requirements of this section of the Act, an officer carrying out the arrest may be liable to civil and/or criminal action ..."
[0] CODE OF CONDUCT FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORT AUTHORISED OFFICERS ~ http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/doi/internet/transport.nsf/h...
Right, but the penalties for resisting arrest (or fining) do.
If a policeman stops you and gives you a ticket for jaywalking, that's not an offence for which you can wind up in prison. But if you try to run away instead of being given the ticket, the policeman can do whatever it takes to catch you and restrain you.
Otherwise, the whole ticketing system wouldn't work at all.
Bad example.
Did you know it's SOP for AO's to only apprehend in certain circumstances at risk of legal complications. For example if a person has evaded capture:
"... In the event that the offender is able to decamp officers are not to give chase and pursue the offender. ..."
if the person has evaded capture and/or hidden:
"... loose sight of the offender then the pursuit must be abandoned and the officers should resume normal duties. Under no circumstance are officers to conduct a search of the area ..."
if the person is on private property:
"... If it is deemed necessary to pursue a person for a serious offence and that particular person enters private property, the pursuit is to cease immediately; entry to private property may be illegal and deemed as trespass. ..."
These examples are straight from the "Code of Conduct". It highlights how limited the real powers AO's have been supplied, mostly the Transport Act 1983.
[0] CODE OF CONDUCT FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORT AUTHORISED OFFICERS ~ http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/doi/internet/transport.nsf/h...
PTAO's (Public Transport Authorised Officers) are pretty much the lowest end of sworn enforcement officer I can think of, certainly not to the level of VicPolice standards ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_officer
For the public this is a problem. The ticketing system the privitised transport system introduced is plauged with trouble ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myki#Criticism The transport company MTR Corp ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTR_Corporation (nee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connex_Melbourne) solution is to questionably enforce ticket policing and the (repeated) result can be read in the papers: "Angry commuters hit out at ticket inspectors" (Mex Cooper, TheAge 2009MAY06) ~ http://www.theage.com.au/national/angry-commuters-hit-out-at...
Easier to squeeze patrons than fix the real problem.
This illustrates the need for video evidence perfectly. Without the footage many people would instinctively agree with you, but faced with the footage it's clear that the inspectors are in the wrong.
[Edit - it's more obvious in some of the later scenes]
In todays news.
"Ex-police officers accused of torture" (The Age, Jenna Hand, 2010DEC24) ~ http://www.theage.com.au/national/expolice-officers-accused-...