Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist
ifixit.com
ifixit.com
The other day I upgraded the NVMe drive, which involved unscrewing 5 screws on the back cover (they don't remove completely, so you can't lose them), pulling it off, then removing the screw securing the drive in place, pulling out the drive, then doing the same in reverse to put it back together. I didn't even need any fancy head, just a standard Philips screwdriver is fine.
If any parts break it's easy to get replacements and perform the work (Lenovo provide lists of part numbers and instructions). Oh and the modification I did will not affect my on-site warranty in any way.
I admire Apple for some of their work, but it just seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot with the lack of repairability and overpriced hardware. I used to be a die hard Apple fan, but the hardware they have released in the last few years has just put me off - now I don't own any Apple products.
(As long as companies don't try to solder it, you can always swap at least RAM and storage. Around friends and family, I had plenty of times where somebody fried their computer (e.g. water damage), and the drive and RAM from it found second or third life in someone else's laptop. My last laptop was a broken one I fixed and upgraded with components from two others. And even if you're not into this level of computer necromancy, you can always sell the parts to those who are.)
The disappointing thing is Apple managed to draw a lot of otherwise sensible designs from the practicality of the 90s to an aesthetics-first approach. As an old Thinkpad user, I am baffled by the design decisions in the Macbook-Pro line of products, from the shell to thinness and repairability.
I think Apple makes an assumption that if you want something with more protection / grippyness, there’s a whole world of 3rd party case vendors happy to solve that problem.
I've been a very longtime user of both Thinkpads and MacBooks. I've liked my various Thinkpads but my experience using them as daily drivers was that there were invariably various port covers and other parts that could be reliably counted on to break off or otherwise be lost in a matter of months.
Brushed or patterned aluminium can be very 'grippy' (eg the lid on my old Asus Zenbook), even more than the Thinkpads with the matte plastic.
I'd rather a sandblasted/high gloss metal case over the awful soft-touch plastic of Dell's XPS line.
Which XPS line are you referencing? I have last year's XPS 15: metal lid and metal frame.
"Color Choice: Silver machined aluminum", "Cut with precision from a single block of aluminum for a sturdy, durable chassis in a beautiful design", "The palm rest is made from carbon fiber". From: https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/shop/business-laptops-ultrab...
It's sort of like the buttons on some TV remotes.
Did you make any effort to check the facts?
Disclaimer: I have last year's XPS 15: although I am not a fan of Dell, I chose the XPS for fast i9 and good Linux support and I haven't been disappointed.
There's no need to be rude or condescending.
I'm going based on my experience of using Dell XPS13 and XPS15 laptops at work over several generations. I don't have access to those laptops anymore, so I can't tell you which models they were, but I'm not making this shit up.
To be clear, I'm talking about the plastic on the inside, around the keyboard rest/etc, not the external shell - from the images on the linked page, they still have that same look to them, so I don't know if they've stopped using it.
Ok: your original comment mentions 'lid' and 'metal case' without anything about the keyboard rest (which is carbon fibre). I am not saying I am the clearest communicator, but you didn't answer me very well IMHO.
Another corporate laptop I have had the joy of using is the HP EliteBook 840 G3, which is a predecessor of these devices inspected by iFixit. Like the ThinkPad's TrackPoint, it has a PointStick which is nearly as usable. Opening the device up reminds me a lot of my personal ThinkPad T460S.
Going forward, it's exciting to know that reparable laptops are not exclusive to one vendor.
Also, props to Dell, who's recent Latitude laptops are still compatible with old docks sporting a serial port - don't know of any other vendors making those.
Being more serious I’m not sure this is considered in the debate about repairability. If Apple soldering memory to the motherboard is more reliable than using a socket is that better or worse for the life of the product.
But it's most definitely not. The SO DIMM socket is a well proven design, I have never in my life seen or read about one failing. But failing memory is a pretty ordinary thing to happen - rendering the entire computer useless in Apple's case...
Note I’m not defending this practice, just wondering if it’s really the problem it’s made out to be.
Luckily, it's a matter of market expectations around repairability rather than an expectation of increase failure rates.
These are their enterprise machines and there's an expectation in that market for a certain level of on-site repairability, either by purchased warranty plans where the manufacturer sends out a repair tech same or next day, or via on-site tech support being able to purchase spare parts and fix them themselves. That's why you see both repair manuals and spare parts readily available.
Lost productivity from sending a machine to a repair depot for a week or two can vastly outstrip the cost of the machine itself, so laptops which require that for even the most common failure modes will tend to get dinged during the procurement selection process. My company actually gives a choice between Dells or Macs for new hires, and the Macs require business justification and SVP approval, since AppleCare for Enterprise is both incredibly expensive and still very limited in what on-site repairs are even capable of being performed in the first place.
The vast majority of consumers are neither capable of repairing their own devices, nor take that into account when purchasing products. So repairability is prioritized accordingly in the design process for consumer devices.
Protip: The same holds true in most things. Consumer lines tend to optimize form and features[1], whereas business/commercial lines tend to prioritize utility[1] and reliability[2]. Dollar for dollar, you'll get more bang for your buck if you shop at commercial suppliers (such as restaurant supply stores for kitchen stuff).
[1] Features and utility are two different things. Cutting edge and unique features, no matter how gimmicky or little used, can be a selling and marketing point for consumer products. These tend to be pretty worthless in commercial products, at least until they've standardized and matured into mainstream functionality.
[2] Commercial products are designed for long periods of sustained use, and products are designed with the materials, durability, and/or repairability to support that. Consumer products are designed for light, sporadic use and materials/designs are chosen accordingly.
The only design flaw is the (non-)docking station setup doesn't give it sufficient cooling, and the location of the power button makes it too easy to accidentally press.
Fortunately you can switch so a single press of the power button doesn't shut down the OS. And we're 3D printing desktop supports that fix the cooling situation.
The only annoyance I have is that when I press capslock some garbage HP software needs to wake up from its deep slumber to show a notification on screen and that locks the system up for like 5 seconds.
Developers typically get ProBooks with matte non-touch screens. Everyone else gets Envy or whichever they decide.
We usually get 15" laptops specced fairly minimally then immediately pop in a new NVME M.2 along with more RAM. Upgrading them usually only takes a few screws.
There is one laptop here from about 4 years ago that required no screws whatsoever to remove the bottom. That was pretty awesome.
edit: We've had such good luck with HP laptops that we decided to buy a small server. Mistake. Do not attempt. Dell servers, HP laptops.
Recently acquired an HP Spectre x360 and so far that's working well too, although it is less upgradable than the Elitebook.
My personal 15” mid-2017 MPB is way too thin and I’ve dropped it because of it. My 2011 13” MBP could’ve been thinner but not as thin as they are now. I dread the day something breaks.
How do the Dell XPSs compared to the newer MBPs or HP Zbooks size wise?
Though I have to say that the ability to open it up is less than ideal.
Because of a leaky water bottle and a surprisingly waterproof bag I managed to soak my week-old laptop for about 12 hours.
There's only two screws on the bottom, and they're covered by rubber feet. The problem is that only two of the four rubber feet are removable - removing the other two breaks a clip, meaning I had to superglue them back on.
After drying it out over the forced-air vents of a server-room for a few days, it was a-ok.
The good points are that's fast enough for my job (mostly backend web development) and easily expandable. I eventually maxed up the RAM to 32 GB, replaced the HDD and DVD with 2 SSD, replaced the keyboard (this is the 6th year of the laptop) and I know I could replace the CPU and the GPU if I care. It runs Ubuntu well.
Somebody could dislike its 3 kg and the 0.8 kg power brick, its thickness and the about 3 hours battery time but they're less important to me than expandability and the 3 buttons touchpad. I work from home most of the time. By the way, the battery apparently didn't lose any capacity along these years.
https://www.ifixit.com/Device/HP_ZBook_15
The newest models improved on many of the good points and some of the last ones I wrote about. The keyboard still has the number pad. I'm considering a 14" model to get rid of it.
The weight is a massive pain, 3.3 Kg for mine, but on average I take it somewhere once every couple of months at most so I can live with it.
The big plus is that I haven't had to buy a new machine in close to 5 years and performance is on par with my Dell at work and certainly better that my crappy surface book 2 at my previous place.
The zbook is just garbage. Hot garbage. We had all of them fail due to woefully inadequate cooling. Only 2 are still working (out of 10)
The elitebook 820g2 is better. I have the only surviving one there though.
But instead manufacturers of laptops, phones, and tablets are putting in substandard batteries to help ensure you come back in a few years for a new one. Especially evil is when there's no screws and they epoxy the battery.
which manufacturer is it they're buying from that's substandard, who should they be buying from, and how are those "standard" companies the standard when they have to be making a tiny slice of the batteries on the planet if they're not used in laptops, phones or tablets? in fact, what device would i find one of their standard-quality batteries in?
Google Pixel phones, slate, and pixel book are similarly hard. Dell and Lenovo are mixed, some of the thin ones are hard to work on, some of the thicker ones are great, modular, and easy to work on.
http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=233
HP of today ... it's just a brand. The engineers that designed sturdy and usable stuff like the Omnibook 800 have been all put out to pasture or went to Agilent.
I was hoping to be amazeballed, but unless there's more to it, so far I'm not amazeballed.
We need to make things slightly less pretty for the world to survive. Only very slightly less, thankfully.