This is perverse given that tobacco cigarettes are still widely available. I can't remember the last time I was actually satisfied with a decision from the Board of Supervisors.
I'm 29, which puts me sort of at the intersection of two age groups right now. I'm starting to be able to connect with older folks, and I can still connect with younger 20somethings.
Nobody I know under 25 smokes cigarettes. Anecdotally, cigarettes in that age group are nearly universally abhorred. Vaping, however, is seen as counter-cultural and cool. Moreover, and perhaps worse, it's seen as nonaddictive and harmless. Yet severe, almost crippling nicotine addiction is celebrated in popular culture (e.g., https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/06/sophie-turner-d...).
In fact, I've seen a depth of addiction to Juul that exceeds what I've seen from older pack-a-day cigarette smokers. I know folks who have to take a hit off their Juul every 3-5 minutes all day long except when sleeping. When sleeping, they won't sleep through the night continuously, and if they do they won't sleep more than six hours because they'll need to wake up and take several hits.
Kids do not want to smoke cigarettes. Young people generally do not want to smoke cigarettes. Cigarettes are mostly a risk to the older generation. Juul and other brands have caused a new generation to become shockingly addicted to nicotine all over again from scratch.
Of course, with all that said, one must wonder which group of people should be prioritized: kids or the older folks? This legislation is trying to protect the former at the expense of the latter (by taking away an effective smoking cessation tool). Clearly, this does not make sense in San Francisco -- a city that more or less does not have kids at all.
So even if people just swap smoking for vaping, a HUGE problem was solved.
This product hasn't existed for very long, so long term studies just don't exist yet.
That said, there is some research that suggest caution is at least still warranted: https://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/impact-of-e-...
Here's some interesting public polls (Gallup): https://news.gallup.com/poll/237818/young-people-adopt-vapin...
According to their data, in the 18-29 demographic, 20% vape compared to 16% using traditional cigarettes.
And some analysis from the academic side: https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2018/10/31/toba...
"There was a substantial increase in youth vaping prevalence beginning in about 2014. Time trend analyses showed that the decline in past 30-day smoking prevalence accelerated by two to four times after 2014. Indicators of more established smoking rates, including the proportion of daily smokers among past 30-day smokers, also decreased more rapidly as vaping became more prevalent...
The inverse relationship between vaping and smoking was robust across different data sets for both youth and young adults and for current and more established smoking. While trying electronic cigarettes may causally increase smoking among some youth, the aggregate effect at the population level appears to be negligible given the reduction in smoking initiation during the period of vaping’s ascendance."
So, it seems to be mixed. Certainly more younger folks vaping than using cigarettes, though it's roughly 55%/45%... and this might not have a strong impact on overall smoking rates.
(I'm actually surprised. I expected to see more vape use based on my own anecdotal observations!)
This is just truly absurd. For some reason I thought maybe it meant the use of vapes indoors or something similar, but the entire sale? Fucking overbearing politicians. This kind of hypocritical action makes progressives look bad.
It’s entirely reasonable to take regulatory steps to protect younger persons. Habits ingrained now last a lifetime - that’s why Juul is fighting this - a new generation of consumers is at risk of not having access to their product. Other cities and states are watching this play out.
By the way, just because you don’t see a lot of kids where you hang out, believe me there are tons of kids here. I have one. We live in San Francisco. There is a robust parent community here. You may not see it if you aren’t looking for it. For example, did you know there’s a large playground at ... mission Dolores park? And if you and your childless friends decided it was a fun place to play, you will get asked to leave. Possibly by the police.
1) e-cigs/vaping is safer with less carcinogens going into lungs. That will lead to less health issues down the line. Even if kids are getting them, which they shouldn't because it is sold in an age limited regulated market, it is still safer than cigarettes and a regulated market with good production is always safer than an unregulated black market.
2) vaping/e-cigs don't combust, so there is no fire, which almost cuts out the threat of a fire starting completely unless a battery explodes which is very rare. A burning cigarette falling will continue to burn by design every single time.
3) e-cigs/vaping leave no butts, no trash and are mostly devices people want to keep and reuse. Reusability and no pollution are what e-cigs/vaping bring. Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean pollution [1], and next to gum, all over all the time.
Prohibitions and illegality of substances a certain percentage of people will always use, make these areas more dangerous in use/production and make harm reduction much more difficult.
[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/plastic-straw-ban-cigar...
Massive progress has been made in getting kids not to take up smoking. If you're a smoker, switching to vaping is a good thing. If you're not, it's a bad thing.
Abstinence > safe sex > unsafe sex
Yes, the first is desirable, but let’s be serious, it’s not a reasonable goal for most people.
Smoking's been in a very successful decades-long decline due to public policy interventions. "Not smoking" is an entirely reasonable goal for most people.
And my point was, teenagers are always going to use mind altering substances. Vaping is a mind altering substance.
People don’t like kids vaping because sobriety is the goal. And I’m saying that’s unrealistic.
2. Do you support SF treating weed the same as e-cigs?
I would assume banning the sale of via business located inside San Francisco vs police throwing you against a wall and patting you down when they see you vaping something.
It seems to me that whether someone is thrown against a wall is not nearly as important as whether something is legal or illegal, in terms of infringing on liberties.
(That said, kids should avoid weed in any form, since it's known to affect brain development.)
When vaping is discovered to have medical benefits, I'll happily change my stance on it. (I'd be happy to have vaping be prescription-only for smoking cessation, in a similar regulatory regime as many states' medical marijuana programs.)
I took a long time deciding to try vaping. I've never liked cigarettes, cigars are a rare thing for me, and I usually let my pipe tobacco go stale. I was still quite worried about trying vaping regardless. I had the same worries you elude too. Vaping nicotine put the nail in the coffin for the idea that I'll start consuming tobacco addictively.
I have a completely different experience with cannabis BTW.
Most commercial e-cigs have some form of disposable component, ranging from the plastic pods used by Juul to some Blu-branded devices which are entirely one-time-use.
I'd prefer a full ban but this is at least staunching what was a regression for public health. E-cigarettes, since their introduction, haven't improved public health - they've worsened it.
I really don't want anyone to feel shamed over their smoking habit but it's an unhealthy thing and if you get into as an adult you should do so only when you're fully aware of the consequences - the way they've been advertised has hooked a lot of minors.
My only experience with the e-cigarette marketing have been commercials where some guy is standing there telling you the same type of stories being shared here “I used to smoke x amount of cigarettes a day, now I use this”, followed by the usual boilerplate “nicotine is an addictive substance” disclaimer, a brand/logo, commercial ends.
Seems benign enough, I can certainly see how some may be turned off by the existence of such marketing at all, is this perhaps what you meant by them being irresponsible or could you help me understand a bit better?
I think we can also look to history when it comes to the flavouring of things, it used to be that medicines would be sweetened to override the natural bitter or acidic tastes of the active ingredients but this led to more abuse of those substances.
[1] https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/vaping-ad...
[2] https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/web-vape-...
Had to let this post sit for a minute before responding, and on the grounds you're offering, to really think about it and look at other examples; ultimately I think I agree with you. Your point is well met.
[1] https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=vype+ads&oq=vype+ad...
That's well beyond personal liberty.
[0]: https://www.erswhitebook.org/chapters/tobacco-smoking/ [1]: https://www.alternet.org/2012/09/how-gambling-can-kill-you-f...
Is there a safer stimulant and do you think this ban will encourage people to use that?
Aside from the ash related risks tobacco is highly addictive due to the nicotine and contains other toxins that can harm you in the long term. For reference, here's what Canada has to say about the chemicals[1].
[1] https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/smoking-toba...
They are, however, still extremely addictive. Arguably more so than cigarettes, since they enable the consumption of much higher doses of nicotine.
A friend once told me, having quit nicotine and heroin, that while quitting heroin was 'like being the living dead', he could probably go through it again, but not nicotine.
Isn't every stimulant? I'm reluctant to ban things on the basis of their addictive potential without considering the consequences of the addiction. I'm pretty sure at least half the people I know need coffee in the morning, but I don't think that means we should ban caffeine. I don't see nicotine as objectively better or worse than caffeine so it's unfortunate that one is the target of legislation and one flows like the manna from heaven in most gathers of people.
Additionally, I think there's a 'good' in letting people choose the stim that works best for them. I personally prefer amphetamine, others prefer coffee, some people find comfort in nicotine.
Open mind here, but can someone elucidate this to me? It came up once in a rather intense discussion with my father in my teens once I discovered the devil's lettuce (cannabis) and my curiosity has yet to be abated by a convincing enough take on the matter.
As far as we know. However, I've got a gut instinct that coating your lungs with flavor additives and propylene glycol or glycerin probably isn't the healthiest thing to do.
Then the atomizer, cheaper ones basically use a piece of steel wool. If you let that variety get mostly dry and still puff away (this was more of an issue a decade ago when they were newer and people had 'drip tips' before all these tanks and battery mods caught on) you absolutely start to get metal fumes which are often quite hazardous to your health.
We have zero long term studies on coating your lungs with this stuff, it may be relatively benign or we may see in 5, 10, 20 years people developing some crazy sort of lung disease.
It's also far more easier to give yourself nicotine poisoning vaping than it is via cigarettes as you can sit there and just constantly puff away because you've got blueberry soda, brownie, super duper wacky fun fruity pebbles bubble gum, etc flavors.
I know people that will vape through ten plus ml a day because they are just constantly puffing away due to the flavor and the nicotine. His 'rig' is effectively permanently attached to his hand and he carries around multiple large batteries in a man-clutch with a few extra tanks. I'm betting he's not alone, in the minority sure but there are likely a lot like him and having your lungs saturated 18 hours a day in nicotine, dye and flavoring agent can not be good.
[citation needed]
> For decades, the percentage of high school and middle school students who smoked cigarettes had been declining. For the past three years, it has flattened, according to new numbers released Monday. There may be several reasons, but a recent boom in vaping is the most likely explanation, said Brian King of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Smokers become desensitised to the warnings really quickly from looking at them every time they smoke.
All the price raising on tobacco has done is push revenue into the black market, invent crimes from nothing and turn otherwise honest people into criminals.
Here is the evidence of the public health meaures:
https://www.health.gov.au/internet/publications/publishing.n...
I was just in a vape shop in the American south for the first time a few days ago.
They are presented as technological marvels. No noticable gory death warnings.
There are several different vape models out in the store center plugged in for you to try out. Everything is extremely clean and shiny, it basically looks like an Apple store. The juice is kept behind the counter in bottles that are backlit with a pleasant blue light [1]. The store is also lit from above by those lightbulbs that have the vintage looking exposed thick filaments [2].
Everything about the store screams, "This is healthy, this is the future, this is cool"
The actual vapes available for sale are locked in a display cabinet, making it feel as if they are as valuable and desirable as jewelery. Behind the counter is a counterculture looking person with guages and tattoos and a laid-back but professional attitude.
Completely different from a typical tobacco store.
There are also ads out on the counter about CBD oil and how it's totally not illegal, so you should definitely give it a try.
I'd imagine the presentation is much the same in California.
[1]: https://s3-media2.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/YNiG2iB_3prcuo0araZY...
[2]: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0903/0788/products/Thomas_...