Aphantasia
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
If you'd like to share, I'm curious.
* Absolute rubbish sense of direction. I get lost on a straight road with a GPS. I can't look at a map and visualise a route - i need to properly understand it or know it from repetition (a lot of).
* maybe a plus, maybe not even related - i can visualise sounds and music. I can play back a song or compose a tune in my head. I can "speak" in any accent in my head perfectly - it doesn't translate if I try it out loud but that is just bad speech skills. I also do some music production so this helps though I admit replicating the sound I hear is often very hard.
* No attachment to past events. I can't "visualise" past arguments or bad events, so I'm left with a concept of them which very quickly fades away as it's just "words". Bygones are really bygones. This one I read somewhere as related. Not sure it is, but I do relate.
* I can't draw to save my life, but I can at least copy something if it's simple and right in front of me. Always at awe at people who can draw out of their head (and I'm a son of an artist).
* I remember events from a very early age (earliest memory is from 3 years old approx). But again, I remember specific actions i've done, and can recall the scene, but not visually. Just the idea/concept of it.
* Just generally feeling like I missed out on something that is really cool. And more than that, missed out on the fact I'm missing out for 43 years.
* I rarely remember dreams, but when I do it's a treat because in my dreams I do "see" the dream. I'm always excited when I wake up remembering a dream. It doesn't last though, I forget it soon enough, but that initial moment I know I "saw" something is really nice.
* All those exercises of seeing a photo and then having to recall it - I find those really hard. I can only recall what I memorised verbally (One shoe, two combs on a table etc) - but can't recall the image itself visually.
Yes, this is true. I can also layer images on reality at will. My wife is the same as you. She sees nothing.
Yet somehow, there is a non visual spatial sense to this, so I could sort-of know - more like a muscle memory of knowing how far to turn a dial, or how far to reach to scratch my toe - if the planned pyramid were going to overlap with a wall.
Visualisation in a way that completely phases those with pictorial ability. :)
I'd do skateboard or cycling by the seat of my pants - it's more a feel, a spatial sense, and a muscle memory thing again. I can definitely get a sense of doing it, so perhaps it stems more from touch than sight?
Same with the sexual - it's the concept, the thought, the emotion, the feels. The sense of touch is definitely quite strong here. Visual needs pornhub. Sorry! :)
Actually, I AM "seeing" something.
Often, with a memory, I can see it in my minds eye just as if it was a picture in front of me. Right now, I'm visualizing a portrait of my mom, and now, the time as a kid I pet the tongue of a killer whale at Sea World.
Did you just "discover" that blindness now or were you aware of it always? I just assumed everybody "visualise" in concepts so never gave it a second thought.
Which was a bit of a surprise as the other 50 years I'd never thought to query anyone about it. I asked quite a few friends when I first found out, and no doubt annoyed them with silly questions.
Now, were you imagining this scene from a particular viewpoint? Did the man turn to the left or to the right? Was he wearing any particular clothes? Were they any particular color? Was the front of the store of any particular material? And could you still see the man in the store even though he might be, from your mind's eye's point of view, be behind a wall?
> Now, were you imagining this scene from a particular viewpoint?
Yes, from above.
> Did the man turn to the left or to the right?
Yes, to the left.
> Was he wearing any particular clothes? Were they any particular color? Was the front of the store of any particular material?
No, no, and no.
> And could you still see the man in the store even though he might be, from your mind's eye's point of view, be behind a wall?
My mental imagery ended as he entered the store. But if it had continued, I think it would have switched to a vantage point inside the store.
Then when reading your question about the viewpoint the details increased and saw the stream from the perspective from a top of a building. The man did not wear any clothes. I could not tell the material of the store front because it's just as it were roughly sketched. When thinking about the man in the store a scene from little britain [1] comes to my mind.
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFQ_ZrRqBlQ
edit: actually when thinking about it most images in my head are mashups of memories. Like I am sure the street I imagined comes from either a tv show or some language learning materials that where used to introduce vocabulary related to shopping or urban life.
I imagine the man walking right to left from the other side of the street, the scene was black & white like an old movie and the man was dressed accordingly, hat included, the shop front made of wood panels. You said the man entered the store, but you stopped at that moment, so don't ask what happened later.
Yes, a slightly elevated position overlooking the entire sidewalk.
> Did the man turn to the left or to the right?
Right.
> Was he wearing any particular clothes? Were they any particular color?
Brown suit.
> Was the front of the store of any particular material?
It looked like a clichee antique store with two large windows and a door between them.
> And could you still see the man in the store even though he might be, from your mind's eye's point of view, be behind a wall?
No, the movie ended as soon as he entered.
But it's still wild to me. I could answer zero of those questions. I "picture" nothing. It seems crazy that most people are seeing images in their brain all the time. Above someone tried to "help" someone visualize who couldn't by saying, imagine a pyramid, now move it 10 degrees, instant visualization. And no, that doesn't work. I don't "imagine" a pyramid, or anything, in a way that has motion or or direction or color.
I can't imagine what it's like to not be able to picture things but now I wonder if I'm really picturing things at all or if I'm just imagining them.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/c4i94n/tifu_by_explai...
[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/c4lzwm/tifu_by_readin...
Anything you're picturing in your mind's eye would require the use of your imagination no? What is the significant difference between imagining and picturing something in your mind?
EDIT: someone in this thread linked to a quiz that makes me think I'm likely somewhere in the 'normal' realm.
What's the difference between imagining something and seeing a picture? That's kind of rhetorical, and kind of not. The article that this page links to from 2005 says:
"Asked to imagine a familiar item or recall a recent event, most people can call to mind an image that is less vivid than the original but has a visual ‘feel’. This expresses our capacity to experience visual mental imagery."
Which is still super vague as to what people do when they "call to mind" something, or what a visual feel is...
I think it's pretty easy to explain relatively unambiguously though.
When you're looking at an object, let's say an orange, you are experiencing a unique, particular sensation which usually only happens when you're looking at an orange. Being able to visualize things is to be able to create the same sensation wilfully even when you're not looking at an orange (albeit of perhaps a lesser intensity).
It can also be used to conjure a short movie like sequence or animation as well. I most frequently use it to plan routes in my mind whether its in the car or how I'm going to move through a particular space it helps orient you and improves reaction speed and can be tied to muscle memory. It takes some focus and is rarely used simultaneously with other activities. It's more like a planning or focusing activity for brief bursts before you take action.
Its actually quite like those slow motion 360 sequences in the matrix. I think that's probably why that film technique gained such traction, as its a slowed down version of what our brains do when we use our visual memory to navigate our movement.
My visualisation of images rates as 0/10 - power cut in a basement. I can't even create a colour (except the inside of my eyelids on a sunny day). Not even aware of a visual component in dreams.
But I can mentally 3D model. I can sort-of "just know" how things interrelate that is more an unconscious time and distance journey around the thing. It works well enough to plan a model, something I want to build from wood, or redesign the kitchen with an idea of where the possible clashes are, before I hit paper. So the spatial sense is there - somehow.
Explaining it without a lot of hand-waving "I just sort-of know" is a challenge I also fail at. It's more like asking you to visualise something non-visual like honesty I suspect.
So far, it has been very problematic to explain to others what it is like to not see images in your mind, I guess because it is fundamentally a process of understanding.
There is a reddit community /r/aphantasia if anyone want to know how it is from their point of view.
Conversely I find it very difficult to think about things which I can't visualize (but I'm good at coming up imagery to represent things). Most of my internal "dialog" is without words.
Is what I consider mental imagery the same as someone else? I dunno.
FWIW, for me, mental imagery seems to take the form of a very brief flash when I'm thinking of a simple object, like a rock, for example. But I assume it extends into less concrete things like when I'm daydreaming, where there is no distinct clear image, it's more of an inner monologue of themes/intent with a few flashes of imagery here and there.
I also sometimes have problems remembering names and eventually forget faces as well if I'm out of contact with someone for a long time.
Anyone else with aphantasia relate to this, or are my issues unrelated?
My wife, who describes herself as having very vivid mental imagery and says she has involuntary photographic memory at times (as in she does not know what triggers a memory to be completely photographic), has superb memory, and I personally believe it's what enables her to quickly learn so many languages.
So as a result (I know, based on sample size one), I'm led to personally believe that my memory-related issues may have some correspondence to aphantasia.
as another aphantasic, the only overlap i've got with you is perhaps in the face stuff. i'm slow to recognize faces, but i don't think that's connected.
> So as a result (I know, based on sample size one), I'm led to personally believe that my memory-related issues may have some correspondence to aphantasia.
i doubt there's a general connection. my memory is generally excellent, certainly superior to most people i work/interact with.
Ah this was so surprising to me as well. It was mind blowing suddenly realizing how powerful other people's visual imagination is.
Allow me to contribute to the sample size:
I probably have aphantasia. It requires a lot of effort to imagine simple, basic visual details when thinking of something. I am terrible at describing faces of people I see every day, let alone strangers.
But when I do see someone I know, I usually recognize them instantly, even if their face changed a bit (facial hair change, long time no see etc).
I also am great with names. Once I get to know someone, I'll probably remember their name for a very long time (decades). I can remember the full name of most of my friends from 15 years ago. But other than that, my memory is really bad.
I do have one odd thing that I've always wondered. Most women's faces look like the same to me. In movies, I have a hard time knowing which women they are talking about (and it takes some time to associate a name to a face). Yet, I have no such problem with men.
Possibly related, I am attracted to men, which could explain why I can easily differentiate each men, but most women look the same for me.
Anyone with similar experiences?
I think the three are totally unrelated.
I'll add a YMMV, as aphantasia.com adds the following caveats: "...it can be hard to classify the vividness of a mental image on a scale from 1-5 when you have nothing to use as a reference point. It is difficult to rank your vividness of mental imagery when you can’t know how strongly other people visualize. The test asks you to compare the vision in your head with how you know it looks in real life in order to reconcile this somewhat: is the scenario you are being asked to visualize equally vivid to its real world counterpart, a little less vivid, or not vivid at all/non-existent?
Further, any test that relies on self-reporting will always be subject to some bias due to the fact that you are more likely to subconsciously (or consciously) choose answers that will give you the result that you want. "
Everything you "see" around you, that your eyes are not pointed directly at, right at this moment, is 100% visualized, in full perspective and living color.
So, unless you have extreme tunnel vision (which does exist, but they can't drive, or read at any speed), you have excellent visualization capacity.
I am forced to conclude that you have, instead, very strong suppression of non-sensory-driven visualization.
[0] https://www.facebook.com/notes/blake-ross/aphantasia-how-it-...
1. Get a group of test subjects who can all read music as a baseline
2. Get them to self-assess on how well they can "hear" imagined notes.
3. Give them a pitch test to see how well their "internally heard" note matches a pitch?
The hypothesis being that those with perfect pitch have a really great internal "ear".
As neat as it sounds to visualize and see things in my head, it doesn't seem necessary for anything.