Lenovo Shipping Ubuntu Linux on 2019 ThinkPad
techrepublic.com
techrepublic.com
I run Ubuntu 19.04 on it and have so many problems.
- Grub has ridiculous performance issues on 4K screens, it renders at less than 1 fps, making it a real pain to do anything in it.
- You can't update the bios through Linux, the update tool is windows only.
- The Lenovo TB3 dock never works properly.
- The dual GPU situation (Intel + nVidia) requires all sorts of hacks to make it somewhat workable.
- The power usage is an abomination under Linux as it can't properly scale the nVidia GPU.
- Working with the TPM under Linux feels hacky, but maybe that's mostly due to my lack of experience and the lack of documentation.
OK, so all these problems are all due to my specific situation (running dual boot, and an external 4K display through the TB3 dock), but I really, really hope they start fixing these issues if they are going to officially support Ubuntu.
One plus though: due to the high power consumption under Linux, the coil whine is a lot less notable...
The only issue I still have is that the Gnome interface (Ubuntu 17.04+) does not support factorial scaling, meaning that I am stuck between 100% (which is way to small on a 14 inch screen) and 200% (which is way too big).
Ubuntu 16.10 still supports factorial scaling though, which means I am stuck with it until a better version comes along.
It is important to me because most of the work I do in my PC is text based (coding and research), so being able to scale text and ui elements 'globally' is critical for good visibility.
Edit: It's supposed to be 'fractional', my bad.
Besides, what is the fucking point of "scaling" at the display level? Isn't it exactly equivalent to setting the font size in points using your physical resolution?
e.g. 1.5 scale on a 3840x2160 display means you have 2560x1440 logical pixels (3840x(1/1.5) = 2560), applications render for 5120x2880 (2560x2=5120) and get downscaled for 3840x2160.
It is still important though, because on 14inch desktops the Ubuntu interface looks way too small on 100% scale and way too big on 200%. At the end of the day you can think of fractional scaling as giving yourself more screen real-estate while at the same time keeping everything in a readable state.
So the best thing you can do, other than re-write all the applications that have been around for the last 30 years or more, is to make the app think it is writing to a display with a specific resolution. Then scale that up to whatever resolution your screen actually is. Then, any element that is bit mapped in the app may not look very crisp, but things like fonts or any element drawn by a UI library can be drawn at the screen's native resolution (because those libraries have been updated to know about the "fake" vs "real" resolution).
This is very similar to when you hit "ctrl +" in a modern web browser. If the web app says "place this element 25 pixels to the right", those are logical pixels and has little to do with actual screen pixels anymore.
I would've been much happier with the intel only version, the nvidia card is not worth it at all but at the time they didn't have 32gb of memory. Now the latest does, but too late.
I consider my problems are more basic than yours, and more hardware related.
- Under linux, the power management is VERY bad. I'm honestly starteled how it can be so bad. I loose 10-13% overnight while in 'deep sleep', compared to only 3% with 7.5 yo MBA. I get 5-6.5 hours of battery life. Less than the 2011 MBA. With windows it it much better - almost on par with my MBA.
- Trackpad has a big deadzone on the left+right + bad palm recognition.
- The display is very slow. More so on windows than on linux for some reason.
- Installing software is way too difficult compared to how it should be. Some software you install from the store, some from the command line, some offer AppImage. Sometimes the store has old versions that no longer works, things are not available for ubuntu 18.04/19.04, or you have to manually created a link such that the software is available in the desktop launcher.
I hope Apple finally fixes the Keyboard+durability issues with their next MBP iteration. Personally, I came to think that the 500$ Apple tax is worth it compared to all the (software) convenience + (hardware) quality that they offer.
I agree, I bought the X1-e as the replacement of my rMBP because I just couldn't live with the keyboard and the touchbar of the new MBP. But the experience of the X1 didn't live up to it's expectations, mostly on the software side.
Don't get met wrong though, the X1 is a great piece of hardware. The keyboard is awesome and I really like upgradability. But the experience on Windows (or Linux for that matter) is just not so good. A macbook is just more polished, and that is coming from someone who generally doesn't like Apple products.
In the end, this is a work laptop for me, and I just want stuff to work. And for that, the $500 Apple tax is worth it.
Are you sure?
https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/au/en/products/laptops-and-netb...
This lists both a bootable image and a Linux utility. I've got standard X1 carbon and have been using the bootable bios updates successfully.
> No upgrades for 20HRCTO1WW System Firmware, current is 0.1.39: 0.1.39=same, 0.1.37=older, 0.1.36=older, 0.1.35=older, 0.1.34=older
I run Fedora on a T480s and BIOS updates come automatically through the software update channel (in fact, the frequency of BIOS updates is a little annoying).
There are hacks you can do to flash the BIOS from Linux though, but I always fear bricking my laptop, so I prefer to use the OEM tool.
They offer ISO-images for these updates too. You can also create a USB-bootable version from these using the geteltorito tool (which is available via apt).
https://workaround.org/article/updating-the-bios-on-lenovo-l...
Edit:
> OK, so all these problems are all due to my specific situation (running dual boot
Why are you using GRUB to dual-boot at all? Your machine has UEFI for that.
As far as I know, dual booting through UEFI requires me frantically hitting the F12 button during powerup to get into the boot menu. And then it won't remember your last chosen OS, so stuff like windows updates (requiring multiple reboots) become really annoying.
But I'll look into this, maybe I can just ditch grub all together, that would be great! My last linux/grub experience was on non-UEFI machines so I was just so used to installing grub that it didn't cross my mind that I might not need it.
- grub has no problems
- Bios updates work through LVFS
- this has no dual gpu.
- power usage and fan usage is about the same as windows, running a bit cooler.
- Suspend has a linux and windows option in the UEFI options, works fine.
As far as I know, Ubuntu has even better NVIDIA support than Fedora so you should be good
You may need to install proprietary drivers though
Also I get really, really good battery life in Linux, I think it's accomplished with sudo powertop --auto or similar
Does hwupd work with Thinkpads?
Do these even work on Windows?
For those of us who have tried to get Linux working on laptops 5-10 years ago this is quite a jump so clearly people have been working on this in the background to get to this state. Was using WSL earlier but after Ubuntu worked so well may as well use it. Of course for those who use Windows only apps WSL remains a good option.
Also have an Matebook 13 and tried Ubuntu after this experience on the Zenbook and there too it worked out of the box on a hi-res screen with dual graphics but you need to use either the prime drivers to use both, or use bbswitch to put off the Nvidia card for the best battery life. So it seems for recent laptops Linux works pretty well out of the box.
While kylin isn't too far off from a traditional distro, officers will force you to install rootkits on both desktop/laptops and phones (JingWang). If you're caught later with it missing you will most likely disappear.
Red Star is horrifically oppressive and monitors everything you do. The GPL is of course ignored and very few changes are ever released. Trying to circumvent the restrictions causes the OS to self destruct. The few applications you can use watermark every file you create.
Long story short them creating linux-based distros is just an easy way for them to exert total control. It does nothing positive for the Linux or BSD ecosystem.
That could well be true in North Korea, but Chinese really isn’t like that. They have a very active tech industry so installing and experimenting with Linux distros and such that might not have monitoring software is fine. As long as you don’t do something openly suspect, like post something considered anti government, they just leave people alone.
I have relatives in China who have desktops and laptops and never come across Kylin. As far as I know it’s mainly used by the military and government departments.
Beijing is not Kashgar. Many Chinese will experience relative freedom and others live in city-sized prisons.
They adopting Linux would mean their hardware would work with it and developers targeting the Chinese market would have to make their programs work on Linux. That's all I'm hoping for.
[0] ~ http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/all/china/2016
Loaded to the top with antiviruses and other crapware to keep it running.
Why XP? Too much hardware comes with XP only drivers. Too much important stuff like tax/bank software was written decades ago for XP, and never ported to never OSes because developers moved on years ago.
Considering the limited access to the internet and not being able to ask StackOverflow users, how can they even manage building such a complex piece of software?
Also, they don't restrict information for everyone. Kim Jong Un went to school in Switzerland... They know about the outside world. Just not the plebs.
If anything it must be easier to do it without the distractions of the web.
In a dictature killing access to culture and education, it not weird to assume it is hard to breed those so you have a limited pool.
So yes, I understand the surprise. Which means NK has some resources we don't include in the picture.
I wonder how true that really is, given the proliferation of ancient (i.e. pre-XP) versions of Windows in heavy use over there.
https://certification.ubuntu.com/desktop/models/?query=&cate...
Recently my CPU broke down and I was "lucky" to try out the on-site warranty to replace my mainboard, which was not perfect (took a few days compared to the advertised "next business day"), but better compared to sending your stuff somewhere or searching your repair shop.
Also note that I do not use any nvidia graphics or 3d games. Just have not tried it and I know this could be a weak point. Videos etc work flawlessly though.
It is also no "free hardware" (bios etc). For an alternative in that regard I recommend to have a look into the nice Librem line from Purism: https://puri.sm/products/
That certification racket between lenovo, canonical and redhat is not worth the paper it's printed on. It has no bearing on anything. Some firms/governments like such papers. That's about it.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nas...
Your first link is about Lenovo's IdeaPad line. IdeaPad and ThinkPad could well be thought of as products from two different companies.
Lenovo was already making laptops when they bought the ThinkPad line from IBM. Their own laptops evolved into the consumer oriented IdeaPad line, while ThinkPad remained the business oriented line.
They're both part of Lenovo, but are largely separate teams with different business goals and philosophies.
In particular, ThinkPads were never infested with any of the stuff you're talking about.
Here is the original notice from Lenovo about this. No ThinkPads are listed:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190303121854/https://news.leno...
Sounds like marketing fairy tale - one part of company is great, second is bad, but we should love both.
The biggest problem comes from people recommending Lenovo laptops, without stressing specifically that it's ThinkPads that are being recommended, and not any Lenovo laptop generally.
If you've used either range of laptop extensively, it's very obvious that they're built to very different specs, with very different goals. There doesn't appear to be much (if any) cross team work going on there.
I didn't say that, or anything like it.
On the contrary, I was explaining the significant differences between Lenovo's consumer laptop group and the ThinkPad group.
They may be under the same corporate umbrella, but they are very different from each other.
There's no reason for Lenovo to put a DOS based operating system into their BIOS :/
Holding grudges about this in 2019 as a Linux-user seems very misguided, or worse, uninformed.
Plus Nvidia drivers are the least likely to support Wayland in the near future.
That said, I've been pretty happy with my T470 at work (running Slackware), so an integrated-GPU-only ThinkPad that ships with Ubuntu sounds interesting (or even an Nvidia-GPU ThinkPad if they've managed to make Intel/Nvidia hybrid setups less painful). I'd probably be willing to pick up one of the all-AMD ThinkPads (I've got my eye on the T495, E595, and X395; all of them seem to have the same CPU and integrated GPU offerings, though the E595 offers way more RAM so that gives it a bit of an advantage); none of those offer preinstalled Ubuntu, though.
Windows is now an ad delivery platform. That probably sounded like a great plan to MS management, but consumer Windows is now on its way to shovelware status. Microsoft will end up paying hardware makers to include it.
it will be great, otherwise it will be the same miserable experience out of the box that you're getting now.
(I own X1 Extreme 2018, like it, but stick to windows).
> Will be available this month
It doesn't say "right now"
That always frustrated me.
So if I as a consumer pay 12 dollars for an OEM version, I would expect Lenovo to pay much less.
Also my first observation is that these laptops are far too big and powerful for my work with Linux.
I work full time in Linux but I focus more on weight and form factor than CPU and GPU because all my work is done in terminals.
The X280 or X1 are perfect for me. No dedicated GPU means slim form factor, light weight, and everything I need for my type of work in Gnome and Terminal.
Stadia uses Linux and Vulkan so games ported to run on Stadia should work on the Linux desktop too.
I'm responding to the mention of Stadia, but I'm not sure what this has to do with Lenovo.
I don't need an 18-wheeler for my commute to work.