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Comment by takamh | Hacker News Reader

I wonder if the fact that physical wallets as a construct are undeniably western affect the study in any way. For example, do people even use wallets in China? They've long since focused on electronic payments as opposed to cash. There's a reason the authors stopped short of making any social commentary in their study.

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I don't have any data to back this up, just knowledge about Chinese society. My view is the main driver for the low score for China is the society norm of minding your own business and not getting involved. So it might not be a measure of honesty but rather a measure of being passive. For example, I would assume if instead of having to contact the person, the person just walked over to retrieve the wallet, they'd likely get it back.

The Chinese invented paper money :) so it's not as though the concept is foreign to any of them. While there might be some differences between cultures in that regard, I think it's kind of a stretch to try to explain away the not very nice data points. I think the data can probably be interpreted in a straight forward manner: if you lose something in China, you're not going to get it back and that's that. It is what it is.

"There's a reason the authors stopped short of making any social commentary in their study." I think because it would be way out of bounds. Casual commenters such as us have a little space to speculate (unless dang gets fussy), but it'd be too improper for researchers to make assumptions.

One major thing missing in this study is the rural/urban divide. I suggest London is not representative in any way of the rest of the UK, and neither is Manchester the same as Penzance.

Edit: I should note that the authors do indeed go into trying to find cultural correlates, they go right for '% protestant' etc. and make some fairly speculative comments which I would be uncomfortable with because these are all just correlations. Notably, one of the highest 'correlations' is 'latitude' (!), it's not as though being at a certain latitude makes one more civic. Maybe there are other, related, factors, but it's certainly not latitude.

You missed my point and I don't think it's a stretch, especially if you don't understand their culture. A better analogy would be if you would return a sack of $100 in nickels, I think most people would leave it. I'm not too familiar myself but if the entire country has moved on to mobile payments, people would be less inclined to return obsolete forms of money. Perhaps someone more familiar can explain better.

I didn't miss your point, I disagree with it.

I believe people in China understand very well what paper money is and means, in roughly/ballpark the same terms as Americans.

I could be wrong.

No one is questioning that China understands paper money.

The question is do they store this paper money is wallets? Or is it carried in a pocket? Or do they have full sized binders the money is put in? Or fanny packs? Do they even carry cash anymore?

They use wallets, paper money just like the rest of us. Though there's a recent phenom of 'cashless', cash is still normative, moreover, this is a very recent thing.

A 'wallet' in China is the the same thing as a 'wallet' in the USA or Sweden.

I know that. Or at least assumed that. I just wanted to clarify what my GP was asking as I felt people were taking it too literal.

Like how women in the US carry purses. I've never been to another country. Do all cultures use purses? If they do is it both genders or only one? I don't know.

Obviously you missed his points. People in China nowdays care little about paper money, especially small money.

The authors admitted above that they excluded Japan because of cultural differences (otherwise Japan would have been at the bottom). All other countries/regions most culturally similar to China, including South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore, are not included possibly because of cultural differences. Yet the result from China is totally to be trusted. Bravo.

I was raised in China and certainly got many of my lost things back growing up. Just because many Chinese folks prefer not to contact the owners directly does not mean they do not use other ways to return lost items :)

Almost agree all except if you lose sthing in China, YOU are going to search for it. One of the social norms is to leave it there, don't pick it up if it's on the floor, so that when people come back it stays where it used to be. Plus passive waiting is the common practice: not your job to find the owner. The silly one who lose the wallet does their own job.

this makes it more difficult to get it back than in some of the top rated countries. Do hope to change. But this is not really about civic honesty.

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