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Comment by 40acres | Hacker News Reader

Anyone with expertise care to chime in regarding possible causes? I recently finished a WWII documentary and the first few installments of Hardcore History's look into Imperial Japan. The Japanese seem like an "intense" (for lack of a better word) culture, which seems like it can be a pro or a con depending on what that "intensity" is targeted towards.

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I always like to say that Japan is basically a feudal militaristic society that just shifted their focus of effort from warfare to business. Japanese introductions and pleasantries are in some ways eerily similar with Marine Corps "customs & courtesies". There was a Youtube documentary I watched where they pointed out that most of the central bankers and other high-ranking economic staff, post-war, were still hardcore fascists. So Japan keeping the structure that had been imposed by centuries of rule under a warrior caste should be less surprising.

The documentary you're referring to is 'The Princes of Yen'.

Contrary to all the Western BS about "samurai caste" etc. (it's always some dim-witted "academically proven" stereotype with you folk), the Samurai completely lost their power during the Tokugawa period due to inflation.

Meiji broke this completely, and gave power to an oligarchy consisting of rich merchants/farmers (and some their samurai co-conspirators who helped with the restoring Meiji to power.). In fact, this transition was helped by the British, which might explain why Meiji was so anti-Asia to begin with - there was an incomplete purge of Buddhism and conscious playdown of Chinese culture.

A. Who is "you folk"?

B. Sure, the samurai lost their political power by the Meji period. That doesn't mean their social and cultural influence disappeared overnight, especially since the country spent decades more or less under the thumb of the Imperial Japanese Army....who saw themselves as carrying on the samurai legacy, well within living memory for some Japanese. In the 30's and 40's it permeated the school system, so generations of Japanese grew up with that same military discipline, inherited from the IJA, who inherited it from the samurai.

They sure as hell didn't get rigid selflessness and tolerance for suffering from rich merchants. Plus they still form up for morning PT sessions at corporate jobs! They just have the intensity dialed down to.....1/10. Do you ever see this in any culture that hasn't had a strong military tradition?

https://youtu.be/taHYsmLpWDY

Couldn't find a decent video of Marines doing company-level PT for comparison, but here's Army Basic Training at "Relaxin' Jackson" (everyone pokes fun at graduates of this base for producing the softest Soldiers): https://youtu.be/cIVWU8hyuI0

Post WWII, Japan was in the position of "work like crazy so that we don't all starve". So their culture became "work like crazy". That position ended perhaps by 1970, but the culture survived.

There may also be other factors, but I think this is one.

Not a historian, but working together as a group and not letting the people around you down are values that are emphasized from childhood. Leaving work before the people around you makes it feel like you are the weakest link.

Also there is a lot of weight placed on seniority, so younger people have pressure to work harder to make up for what they lack in experience. While a little less common now, it used to be understood that you shouldn't leave work before your boss.

I listened to this podcast series too! So, so interesting, especially as an Asian American and understanding how that period of Japanese colonialism affected the rest of the region.

I'm not certain historical events are the right model. This trait of long working hours has appeared in countries with fairly diverse circumstances.

I suspect sometimes it's just a matter of a few large employers setting people's idea of what "normal" is.

It’s like anywhere else. There are plenty of slackers and dumbasses. They just aren’t remarkable, so they’re not in our zeitgeist. But believe me, if you teach in Japan, you meet lots of people who are lazy.

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