Not even the Hong Kong protests can get past Chinese censors [video] | Hacker News Reader

Not even the Hong Kong protests can get past Chinese censors [video]

qz.com

68 pointsavocado429 comments

I wonder if we're about to see another big wave of emigration from Hong Kong, like the one that occurred in the decade before Britain handed over HK to Chinese control. Anyone who grew up in the 80's/90's in commonwealth countries like Canada probably remembers seeing a lot of new faces from HK in school pretty much every year.

This is a whole other level, but there is something somewhat similar going on with news in general in most countries, including the US.

People get their information from certain streams. It might be reddit, or Hacker News, or certain subreddits on reddit. Or it could be WhatsApp or Fox News. Or in some cases RSS feeds. Or some particular website.

But news streams tend to be attached to certain groups and certain worldviews. And its not the same level as Chinese censorship, but when there is user moderation support, the groups do automatically censor things that contradict their worldviews.

From what I can see, just about everyone is living in their own alternate reality that has been tailored to their particular political slant.

Here is an example: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/19/asia/viral-photo-hong-kon...

Some people who were promoting the protests were tweeting a doctored photo that made the protests look larger than they were.

Again, that's a completely different level from totally censoring information.

Well, I guess I will go ahead and say something that may get the comment buried. There are certain "conspiracy theories" that I believe that are automatically censored from being visible on YouTube or other information streams for the US.

So I think that it is correct to be concerned about how far China is gone, but at the same time I don't think people realize that other countries are not always impervious to this type of thing. And part of it has to do with just a ubiquitous protection of worldviews. Which unfortunately are often dictated in a top-down fashion to some degree. So I think its a worse problem than people realize.

Or for example with HN and reddit, if you say something that too many people disagree with, it becomes hidden. So for example my recent comment which I thought was the most important one I had made recently:

"-4 points by ilaksh 1 day ago | parent [-] | on: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in F...

They are going to get the regulators in their pocket and play ball with them. They will filter all transactions requested and provide a convenient place for governments to go for information or control.

Its a way for companies to capitalize on the cryptocurrency hype, without, ultimately, acting like a real cryptocurrency. Its going to be a giant bank that has government law enforcement and intelligence agencies as its clients and patrons.

This is sponsored by Visa and others. They are co-opting "cryptocurrency" for their own purposes. The goal is for this to become mainstream before real cryptocurrencies and take over before they can really get going for mainstream payments.

I filed a bug report. https://github.com/libra/libra/issues/41 "

This comment is not seen by people unless they click the plus button, and its unlikely they will do so.

Censorship and alternate realities are a core function of even Hacker News.

Impervious? This event received extreme coverage from western media as opposed to the protests in France, which have been equally violent and have been going on for months.

We live in the same kind of bubble as the Chinese.

I wouldn’t say it is the same kind of bubble. Not all bubbles are created equal. The bubble North Koreans live in vs the one we do are not equivalent.

A core function? No. Still happen here? Yes.

Just shows how 'great' China is...

Please don't post unsubstantive comments here. Especially not flamebait.

I've noticed a recent uptick in news promoting the cruelty of China toward its citizens.

I struggle to figure out how much is true, and how much is an alternate reality created by my government. (I'm in the USA, and anger towards China definitely benefits the Republican Party / Trump administration.)

I can't blame you for being suspicious, but in this case we have both a significant anniversary of Tianamen Square and a major protest in Hong Kong that are probably driving news sources.

You should probably look at the issue behind this protest. Currently, Hong Kong and mainland China have separate, independent judicial systems. HK's is a fusion of Chinese law and British common law. The HK government recently tabled a bill that many feared would make HK citizens subject to mainland Chinese law, effectively ending the "one country, two systems" policy. This is a pretty big deal, and I don't think these protestors required foreign meddling to fill the streets.

On the other hand, lots of significant stuff goes on in the world while U.S. news sources ignore them and cover domestic fluff. An event like the current protest might show up in news, but then quickly disappear instead of being dragged out into story after story as "BIG NEWS". Is this showing up as big news in U.S. news sources because of the antagonism between the U.S. (and most of the rest of the world) and China right now? It's certainly possible. Even so, I think what is happening in HK right now is significant, and worthy of attention.

This is silly. As a US citizen with the internet, you have easy access to foreign press as well. Just go look at that and see how much of an alternate reality we're not in regarding this topic.

On a side note, I did some more digging, and:

The Agnelli family is the largest shareholder in the Economist. The Rothschilds are second largest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economist_Group#Ownership

Also, as of 2015:

> Pearson’s move to sell most of its stake to Exor, the investment company run by the Agnellis, upholds a tradition of dynastic ownership of media assets. Rupert Murdoch owns News UK, which publishes the Sun and the Times, the Barclay brothers own the Telegraph, and the Rothermere family controls the Daily Mail titles. Overseas, the Sulzberger family owns the New York Times, the Springers control huge chunks of German media and the Bonnier family owns a large publishing portfolio in Sweden. Newspapers have long been the playthings of wealthy media barons who are seduced by the access and influence they bring.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/aug/15/economist-beco...

Just because press is foreign doesn't mean it's objective or independent of politics. News is a business, and just like any business, the owners make decisions based on their beliefs.

Definitely true, but also besides the point. The comment in question was suggesting government control/influence, not familial dynastic influence.

Also just because much press internationally is political doesn't mean they share the same political perspectives. They are often at odds with each other by region.

Further, the type of media controlled this way no longer has a monopoly in information. Thanks to the internet, there are many smaller and diverse organizations with perspectives now as easily accessible.

Yes. I view posting on HN and seeing the response as one way to help uncover the truth for myself.

Not sure why you were downvoted, because this is an interesting thing to note.

I don't know who it benefits, but it's important to question everything in this day and age.

For what it's worth, there's a substantial amount of anti-CCP propaganda out there (although I doubt it's straight from US gov but who knows). By propaganda I mean QAnon-tier nonsense.

I've had the great pleasure of hearing about it from certain relatives on a semi regular basis. One week you hear that trump will have the CCP dismantled within a month, the next week you hear there's going to be mass starvation in China and we need to call relatives (in mainland China) and tell them to stock up on food while they can.

The common theme is that Wang Qishan (not Xi, notably) is some kind of corrupt Boogeyman who controls China, wallstreet, etc etc

Hmm. Putting on my paranoid hat, I wonder if Xi is orchestrating a campaign against Wang Qishan...

I've considered that but I doubt it. I don't watch the youtube videos myself so I can't be sure, but it sounds more like Wang Qishan was an easier boogeyman to blame for all of life's issues (like how the Koch brothers are for the american left or Soros+Hillary for the alt-right)

Are these relatives Chinese or American? I hadn’t heard of this but would be interested to see.

Chinese-American

The stuff mostly propagates out of the depths of the youtube recommended video hellhole preying on older folk who doesn't understand the internet (what else is new)

If you are interested in setting down to look more into it I'd recommend you start by looking into Guo Wengui, and his youtube channel in particular, at the very least I know for a fact that's how my relatives first went down this route. He does regular political videos that spin anti-CCP and pro-Trump.

If someone’s coordinating the US media, they’re also doing the same to high quality UK outlets too. The FT and Economist have been publishing a lot of stories that are very critical of the Chinese government.

I agree it’s good to question. What do we think may not be true? I can fact-check HK situation via personal sources to some extent. The other stories that I’ve seen recently are those about re-education camps for (reported) hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the country, and the campaign against Huawei’s involvement in 5G and other projects.

I noticed the “2 million people on the streets stat” wrt HK was met by the government with a number in the tens of thousands. That’s a ridiculous discrepancy; at least one party is outright lying. Perhaps fact checking that stat would be a good indicator of how much to trust the Chinese media vs the protestors or western press.

Just a few weeks ago was the 30th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre, and now you have 2 million people protesting in Hong Kong.

I think it's mostly that there's a lot of newsworthy events going on in China right now.

I'm the reporter on this article. I can tell you that the US government did not pay me or pressure me in any way. And other journalists who worked on this piece are in fact Chinese. Skepticism is healthy but don't let it get in the way of learning the truth.

I was in Shanghai last year and can confirm that China is far more authoritarian than even the US under Trump. Cameras every 400 Meters on the street, digital ads showing photos of debtors,etc. Great food, architecture, and ancient culture though. Overall made me appreciate the 'freedom' of the US a lot more, since I've been pretty bearish since 2016

Anger against China in trade benefits Republicans and Trump. Anger against China in human rights does not, because then they would have to explain their friendliness to Saudi Arabia and other countries. Trump hasn’t chimed in on the HK protests much at all as far as I can tell, he just doesn’t care.

This is nothing but click bait. Three paragraphs about how searching for Hong Kong in china doesn't return any meaningful results. Pretty much just standard censorship, and nothing about creating an "alternate reality." Also interesting that the OP only seems to post negative stories about China.

I thought this too but there is an embedded video on the page and I guess maybe that is what's being linked to.

Isn’t the point of “standard censorship” the creation of an alternate reality?

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