Comment by low_poly_shiba | Hacker News Reader

Comment by low_poly_shiba | Hacker News Reader

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big if true!

unfortunately the Falun Gong is an insane cult and not a very reliable source of information

RationalWiki has a big citations-packed section on their claims of organ harvesting in China:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Falun_Gong#Victims_of_Organ_Ha...

I hope after the Iraq "incubator smashing" fiasco, and "WMD"s, Americans apply some skepticism towards claims that their geopolitical adversaries act like fantastical TV show villains.

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edit, bc can't reply because I'm massively getting flagged and downvoted across all my posts

here's me addressing claims that nobody has challenged the Matas report:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilgour–Matas_report

> The report, based on circumstantial evidence, concluded that "there has been, and continues today to be, large-scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners."[2] China has consistently denied the allegations.[3][4]

then

> The initial report received a mixed reception. In the US, a Congressional Research Service report by Thomas Lum stated that the Kilgour–Matas report relied largely on logical inference, without bringing forth new or independently obtained testimony; the credibility of much of the key evidence was said to be questionable.[5]

Falun Gong being a weird culty organization (they absolutely are) doesn't mean China isn't abusing them, which they are, or that they're not harvesting their organs, which they may well be.

"China is harvesting organs from detainees, tribunal concludes. Victims include imprisoned followers of Falun Gong movement, China Tribunal says"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harve...

> An independent tribunal sitting in London has concluded that the killing of detainees in China for organ transplants is continuing, and victims include imprisoned followers of the Falun Gong movement.

> The China Tribunal, chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who was a prosecutor at the international criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, said in a unanimous determination at the end of its hearings it was “certain that Falun Gong as a source - probably the principal source - of organs for forced organ harvesting”.

Looking forward to your links showcasing the evidence Geoffrey Nice put forth.

RationalWiki covers a lot of claims, and the counter-claims. It's overall not very compelling, very "I swear I heard about incubator smashing", with retracted claims and whatnot.

See Amnesty International's seal of approval for the fraudulent Nayirah testimony:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

Falun Gong claims they could cure any cancers. If you believe them, cancer patients could save a lot.

> Questions of feasibility aside, it is highly unlikely that such operations would escape the attention of Western intelligence agencies

"If this was happening, the CIA would tell us" doesn't count at all as a successful defeat of the argument, IMO.

Whether or not the Falun Gong harvesting can't be decided definitively either way. I lean towards it happening based on more evidence favoring that. There's no smoking gun because while the Party is pretty shit at their job, they're also extremely powerful, and as much obfuscation as the Falun Gong can manage, they'll never achieve the levels at which the Party intelligence apparatus pulls of on a daily basis.

I don't think the claims are primarily being made by the Falun Gong, and I don't think it's fair to dismiss a religion you don't agree with as "an insane cult".

There are no credible refutations of the findings of the Kilgour-Matas report that I could find... it seems to be just the Chinese government saying "nuh uh, we don't do that".

RationalWiki is not a credible source.

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