Ask HN: Why are YC startups so secretive in Job postings?
I see Job postings of 2 YC startups on front page (and I think I remember few similar) and no company names / urls / ... just wondering? :)
http://news.ycombinator.com/jobs
It's only the unlaunched ones that don't. Those have to weigh the benefits of launching vs the costs. Usually they launch soon anyway (we encourage startups to launch quickly) and can then give their names in jobs posts. So a post like this is not the last chance a startup will have to hire people; it's just a chance for them to attract a few adventurous ones a month early.
Empirically, they are in fact able to attract good people, which is why they continue to do it. A posting by an unnamed startup may not work on a job board where anyone can post, but here it has worked well for years.
The unstated hidden reason comments are disabled is because comment threads often dilute the message of the posting.
Threads can digress and accentuate negative, minor, or emotional/controversial distractions. The postings are a favor to the listing company. If that company prefers just "here's our message, contact us", with no risk of defocusing tangents, then that's the right favor for YC/PG to grant.
It may also be better to decide up front, "we'll give up the comments, good or bad", than to allow comments, and get a few that are so unproductively snarky they create a back-and-forth with critics, or that trigger premature speculation about things strategically left unsaid, or that prompt a later censorship decision (with its accompanying distracting gripetails).
The inevitable discussion about how we could just have an etiquette of not doing that, or a guideline for not doing that, or a new kind of flag button for that, or or or, will just serve to illustrate how much simpler a solution just not allowing comments on those posts is.
These posts aren't hurting you. My bet is most HN people actully think they're a benefit of HN --- early access to YC jobs! This is a fake controversy. Can we think about tolerating the YC job ads in terms of "least we can do for running HN"?
A posting anywhere with enough specific info to prompt applicant interest will prompt other observers to fill in the details. It's true for Google, Apple, Facebook etc. – so it will be true for self-identified YC startups who tout their impressive metrics as well.
Maybe ads are a type of content.
http://www.baekdal.com/publishing/why-traditional-ads-work-a...
Edit: Not trying to imply that I am a "great programmer"... just providing a data counterpoint that they will probably get people who have other options too applying to this to at least check it out.
They want to make use of that event and release that information at the right time, to make the right kind of splash. Chances are only their closest friends know that they have YC funding, because if it leaked to, say, TechCrunch, they would lose the advantage of being able to announce their YC funding at the most advantageous time for them.
The ideas are obviously not stealth ideas if they have 20m uniques in 6 weeks.
This goes for hiring new employees too. Even if your beta version sucks and you aren't ready to show it off, yet its a product that works and fixes problems, job candidates will find a way to apply.
I can refute your comment with one word: Apple.
Do you think their "leveraged media events" aren't effective? I used the believe (as you do) in the "Product Uber Alles" philosophy- no longer. Product is indeed the most important thing with the highest leverage. But it's not the only thing, and ignoring skillsets and tactics that can give you an advantage is silly.
Think of non-product bits as multipliers. If I have great PR, bizdev, marketing, pricing, etc., I can often beat a better product in the market.
There are zillions of markets where crappy/mediocre products are at or near the top of the heap.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. A company could be made by a leveraged media event and by having a great product.
- Investors can hear about you
- Showing relevant press from a reputable source is a great way to overcome objections to your product
- It attracts excellent talent that is more risk averse than, say, someone who is willing to join early stage/pre money or when the startup is in stealth mode
- You get to set the tone of your brand in the public eye
- You can get a critical amount of press momentum with a lot of planning and a little bit of luck. The idea being that if you can get a few big -- or relevant -- publications to write about you at the same time, it will get the attention of secondary publications and down onto humble bloggers.
PR might not always be a good strategy for product awareness. But planning and guiding how the public sees you is a great strategy for any company.
"YCombinator companies are so amazing to work for that they can't be bothered to tell you who they are in a job posting."
Why didn't they mention their name in the job posting, then? I would totally work for them, were it not for the fact that I already have a job and a skillset completely orthogonal to anything they might want.
This is just speculation, but it would be my guess that they are either dealing with a few smaller competitors or one big one.
For instance in California they've got Berkeley, Davis, UCSD and Stanford, although they're missing UCLA, UCSB and all the other (smaller, I think) UCs. I haven't looked at other states. There doesn't seem to be any particular rhyme or reason to which universities they're not in, so I guess it's just that nobody at UCLA has bothered to click the "I want it here" button yet.
Good post on benefits of stealth mode here: http://trada.com/blog/2010/03/31/the-stealth-mode-trada%E2%8...
Edit: or maybe that's the point - if you don't know who the poster is, you're not worthy of applying.
Maybe they are betting on curiosity? :)
* From what I have read, I am not so sure it's "just me". For example, I've read plenty of anecdotes where someone went in to some field with grand visions only to discover that their visions don't remotely match the day-to-day details of their actual work.
If it helps you enormously to know the company name, you have some kind of advantage over me.
Peace.
Playing your cards close to your chest usually does not hurt.
> During the years we worked on Viaweb I read a lot of job descriptions. A
> new competitor seemed to emerge out of the woodwork every month or so. The
> first thing I would do, after checking to see if they had a live online
> demo, was look at their job listings. After a couple years of this I could
> tell which companies to worry about and which not to. The more of an IT
> flavor the job descriptions had, the less dangerous the company was. The
> safest kind were the ones that wanted Oracle experience. You never had to
> worry about those. You were also safe if they said they wanted C++ or Java
> developers. If they wanted Perl or Python programmers, that would be a bit
> frightening-- that's starting to sound like a company where the technical
> side, at least, is run by real hackers. If I had ever seen a job posting
> looking for Lisp hackers, I would have been really worried.Free, with robust sets of libraries, frameworks and support in the community. Used by a number of "big guys" (Facebook springs to mind) ... furthermore ... it's 'forgiving' in terms of rapid development.
It has brackets (a small thing I know - but I think better with brackets)
Certainly, if I'm looking around for "my next language" - I think Node.js+MongoDB might be the most exciting stuff out there. But again - there's an advantage for rapid development in PHP on this one. I can get ridiculous bandwidth and storage on a $10 hosting plan if I develop in PHP - wheras if I'd like to take on node.js I've got to buy actual server accounts (not a significant increase in price - but actually a huge leap up in required knowledge).
What about PHP indeed? Or maybe"why not PHP?"
With respect to PG's position, I think he comes from a LISP background - so for his purposes, it's the hammer & nail scenario. His knowledge of LISP makes him aware of what a powerful tool it is (wheras to me - it's just about talkin' funny)
With respect to the other 'hacker languages' it's probably that the differences between .py and .php aren't significant enough to mention both.
PHP is the best tool if it's what you know.
I really don't know why you were downvoted for what seems a legitimate question. But who cares? At the end of the day, Hacker News Karma is roughly as valuable as owning in World of Warcraft ... people who're involved care but the rest of the world will really wonder what you're excited about.
Of course startup founders can think differently and may be right, I just think the support for this in the community is amusing in light of the "radical transparency" chic we're all into now - do YC startups have more important/valid secrets than the US government?
The only thing that they're not telling is their identity, which should be fairly easy for a curious competitor to google - or to social engineer by e-mail.
I've yet to see a job posting that did not have that bit of information in it. Sort of helps when you let your prospective hires know what you're looking for ;)
I know that many companies don't post their name, but from the point of view of someone who's been looking around - I think it's critical for me to be sold on the product & culture of the company.
Irrelevant at the end of the day though ... if they don't want to publish their name, it's likely that it's not a good fit for people who care about knowing the name.
(I know that's such a circular definition that it's almost useless - but - in my head it makes a lot of sense)
:)