Google To Invest Millions in Palestine
blog.bazinga.ps
blog.bazinga.ps
I hope you rethink your intentions here and in future posts about this terrible conflict attempt to be more evenly considerate. Remember there are always two sides to every story.
Thank you.
That said, the tone of equivocation you take is a great example of "pretending to be wise": http://lesswrong.com/lw/yp/pretending_to_be_wise/
It's kind of hard to produce anything when your house is demolished by bulldozers and your town's farm is burned.
This sort of thing is how a viable Palestinian state is going to come about, if ever.
Anyway...
Of course there's a high percentage of suicide bombers in Palestine - it's their only option against an oppressive regime. They don't have tanks, they don't have fighter planes and they don't have a navy. It's their last resort. They have nothing else with which to fight.
All of which Israel denies the Palestinians.
I'm not saying one is good/bad/ugly. Just pointing out that it's not just Israel.
In short, you're doing precisely what you just accused the parent commenter of doing, but wrapping it up in pseudo-logic.
>he stated that Israel has taken actions to stifle Palestine. That is an objective fact...
False, saying Israel takes actions to stifle the Palestinians implies the intent is to stifle, when the intent could just as easily be defensive and as minimally stifling as possible. Those are both opinions. endtime merely pointed out what is there for everyone to see: the Palestinian territories dedicated an uncommonly high percentage of their economic output to terrorist activities, regardless of if you think "they had to do it."
In short, the logic is clear, the amount of man hours dedicated to terrorist activities is objective, saying the Israelis intend to stifle the Palestinians is analysis.
Such a strawman ... I never said anything about Israel's intentions.
And frankly, you're being ridiculous. Whatever Israel's intentions are, blockades are stifling, putting fences through people's land is stifling. Are you really prepared to argue otherwise?
Again, it's your prerogative to argue that Israel is justified in their actions, but when you try to make it so that even stating facts is equivalent to attacking Israel, all you're doing is "stifling" debate.
By the way, the net effect of Israel's actions on Palestine's economy is objective as well. The idea that your side's pain is objective and everyone else's is "analysis" is ... unfortunate.
I never argued otherwise. It can be argued that Israel doesn't have a choice, for the reasons of self defense, but to implement security measures which happen to be harmful to the Palestinian economy, effectively absolving Israel of any responsibility of the economic effects and placing it on groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. The point is, talbina put the blame on Israel (implicitly), even though that's just typical one-sided analysis that adds nothing to the discussion.
I'm pretty neutral on the conflict as a whole (I'd need to know way more to have a real opinion), but I'm pretty certain I'm against the Israeli blockade of Gaza[1].
It's pretty hard to build stuff when you can't import cement, steel, or glass. And the food restrictions have contributed to malnutrition in Gaza.
They did finally ease the restrictions in June (after 3 years), so I think it's a lot better now. I can't find a list of what's still not allowed.
1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932010_blockade_of_t...
FYI: The food restrictions were never of a nature that would cause malnutrition, that is propaganda. If you know even a bit about the issue you know the Israelis have reasons for blockading construction material, so the question is if you are neutral, why you don't believe them.
It might be perceived as riskier, but I would say that it's likely only slightly riskier than funding a startup anywhere else.
I'd be happy to hear first-hand experiences from people who worked with Palestinian developers or with software produced by Palestinian developers.
1. I never knew a Palestinian developer on any mailing list or other forum.
2. I never knew of any software or technological product developed in Palestine.
3. I never knew of any notable developer or software developed in ANY of the Muslim states in the middle east, and that's a huge evidence given that there are >100 million Muslims there.
And to remind you, we are talking about the entire Muslim middle-east here, with >100 million people who live in relative wealth and comfort. But Google is investing in Palestine, who are only a few millions who live in poverty and danger.
I'll bet you haven't heard from a lot of developers in Bangladesh either but they exist and are quite active. In their market, which HN is hardly a part of.
> But Google is investing in Palestine, who are only a few millions who live in poverty and danger.
Which makes it extra worthwhile, as a 'leveler' it has much bigger effect this way than it would have elsewhere.
[2] http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/zeitgeist2010/ http://www.google.com/insights/search/#date=1%2F2010%2012m&#...
My name is Mahmoud Al-Qudsi, and I'm currently living in Jordan and I studied in Palestine. You've probably seen me here a lot :)
I run NeoSmart Technologies at http://neosmart.net/ which develops software used by tens of millions of people (for free). I also have a full time position as the Senior Software Architect at Genie-Soft (http://genie-soft.com), which is in the top 5 backup software companies around the globe, makes millions a year, and is headquartered in Jordan.
I've contributed to many open source projects, including WordPress and Ubuntu. I've collaborated with people from across the world of all faiths and cultural origins, without bias, and don't consider myself to be any "better" or smarter (or any worse, for that mater) than anyone else by virtue of my religion, language, or culture.
I never felt the need to shout out that I'm from Palestine because I figured no one cares where people are from, only what they can and have accomplished. Perhaps it is not incorrect to be overt about ones origins, in hopes of dispelling myths perpetrated by comments like yours. Please note, I'm not attacking, only lamenting...
The question is if there are more people like you there. I think you can find a good programmer in any region, but there needs to be a good amount of them in order to create something substantial. So I am yet to be convinced that it's a myth that there's a low amount of talent in Palestine.
You cannot judge a people to be "talentless" without taking in the context. And you cannot/must not ignore the context in this case. It is not these peoples' fault that they are unable to start the next facebook/twitter/whatever, you have no idea how difficult it was for me to accomplish what I did here. People here will put the same amount of effort as yourself, if not more, and not succeed simply because of the environment they are in.. it takes a lot of work to break away from the layers of obstacles in the way and makes something that can be appreciated by people like yourself.
In answer to your question: Yes, there are. Everyone at Genie-Soft is a talented hacker. I've met dozens of hackers at tech meetups and at conventions sponsored by Google and Microsoft. If you're predisposed to not see these people though, they are easy to miss.
To address your third point and name a few notable hackers of mideast and/or muslim heritage that come to mind off the top of my head that you might be familiar with, please see the list below. You likely use all these guys' hacks daily, so the contribution is definitely there. :)
- co-founder of apple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs)
- founder of admob, omar hamoui (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdMob)
- taher elgamal, a cryptographer who brought us encryption standards like DSA and SSL /HTTPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taher_Elgamal)
- in days past, al khawarizmi brought us algebra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Mūsā_al-Khwārizmī) In fact the word algebra originate from the Arabic al-jabr. So does the word algorithm, which is Latin for his name.
- there are many others, some famous and some nameless - hacking away - in all aspects of technology, medicine, science, etc. but you might not necessarily recognize them as being from that part of the world. Maybe even a coworker...
I hope that alters your perspective - at least somewhat - on the middle east, it's talent and it's role in hacker culture.
I was just in jordan and met a number of Palestinians (expat and visiting from the region) and I can only say that they seemed as technical as any hacker I've met in Cambridge or in the Valley. (this means that I met people as smart and as inexperienced as I've met in those places too)
They work under what we'd consider tougher conditions (less reliable power and rough and tumble internet connections) but that doesn't keep people from experimenting and learning.
As a funny side note, do you know what SICP sells for in Jordan? 11$! (the jd is pegged to the us currency)
Last I heard, the jury was still out on whose land it is.
I have no opinion about what to do with the West Bank, but by saying that it is 'occupied' by Israel, I feel you're implying that Israel's presence there is unjustified.
Israel captured it from Jordan in 1967, which had taken it in 1948. Jordan's occupance was recognized by practically noone. Up until that time, it had been part of the British Mandate of 1922, which was an international effort to create a Jewish state.
"The territory now known as the West Bank was a part of the British Mandate of Palestine entrusted to the United Kingdom by the League of Nations after World War I. The terms of the Mandate called for the creation in Palestine of a Jewish national home without prejudicing the civil and religious rights of the non-Jewish population of Palestine. During that time the area was called by the historic names of its two regions -- Judea and Samaria." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_bank#History
"Judea (from the Hebrew: יהודה, "Tribe of Judah") was the name of the mountainous southern part of the historic Land of Israel." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea
"Samaria (Hebrew: שֹׁמְרוֹן) is a term used for a mountainous region roughly corresponding to the northern part of the West Bank. [..] "Samaria" derives from an ancient city of the same name, which was located near the south of Samaria, and was the capital of the Kingdom of Israel." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samari
Also, remind everyone, when was Israel created?
Furthermore, isn't the article about Gaza at least partially also, and, isn't Gaza some sort of prison? Finally, is Israel not actually occupying these territories? I mean, is West Bank Israel and by the same token is Gaza Israel too?
Jordan took the West Bank when the British Mandate was terminated. The international community had designated it to become part of the Jewish National Home. This is also why practically noone acknowledged Jordan's rule of the West Bank. Before 1946, Jordan itself was part of the British Mandate. It was separated to create a country where Arabs from the region could live, whereas Palestine would become the Jewish National Home. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine#Te...
"Also, remind everyone, when was Israel created?"
About 1000 BCE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel_%28united_mon...
"isn't the article about Gaza at least partially also?"
Sure, and Gaza was part of the British Mandate as well. In 1922 it was designated to become part of the Jewish National Home. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gaza#British_Mandate...
Jews, Christians and Muslims all have their roots in the region. I believe they should all be able to live there, with a government that respects all faiths. For devout Christians and Jews, it's very difficult to live in Middle Eastern countries other than Israel.
Furthermore, you seem to use the term 'palestinian' as meaning a people originating in the region but different from Middle Eastern Jews and Christians. In reality, to be Palestinian is to have genetic roots in the Levant, it has nothing to do with religion. Many Jews and Orthodox Christians are Palestinians too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people#DNA_and_gene...
I think it's pretty clear that the West Bank belongs to the people who live there, the people commonly referred to as the Palestinians. It certainly shouldn't belong to the people living next door in Israel or to whomever they allow under the protection of Israeli military force to establish settlements there.
Israel is open to all, it has freedom of religion, a constitution, and elected officials. Compare that to the other countries in the Middle East.
"I think it's pretty clear that the West Bank belongs to the people who live there, the people commonly referred to as the Palestinians."
- One quarter of the people living in the West Bank are Jewish.
- The majority of all people living in the West Bank have lived there for less than three generations.
- We can't even agree on the definition of what a 'palestinian' is.
What percentage of the population of the West Bank were Jewish in 1967? The proper term for what's going on is colonisation or perhaps plantation.
If you're correct about the the majority of the West Bank population being there for less than 3 generations, then I can give you 2 reasons for this. 1: The former residents of that part of Palestine that became Israel who upon the formation of the state moved to the West Bank. 2: The increase in the Jewish population.