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Comment by nhumrich | Hacker News Reader

I've had a polygraph before while interviewing for a security clearance position. The questions they asked were pretty standard such as "are you a terrorist" and things. I could unequivocally answer the questions without a thought. But my polygraph took a couple hours and after a while in that room, being asked the same questions over and over, I honestly started to wonder if I was, somehow, a terrorist and they knew it but I didn't.

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I've heard some stories about polygraph exercises being used very aggressively in that way. For example, here's a claim I happened to bookmark (which sounds like it might be an extreme case, if even true): https://antipolygraph.org/statements/statement-038.shtml

(Personally, I avoid any jobs requiring security clearance, despite respect for a lot of those jobs, and respect for the people who take on that extra burden on their freedom out of a sense of duty. One reason I don't think it's for me is that my earlier youthful privacy&security advocacy had me talking on topics that I don't think I could've, were there any perception that I might've been exposed to privileged information. Apparently, I like talking, and occasionally I've managed to randomly think and say something that needed to be said, and I figure that's one way I'm useful.)

Wow, what a disturbing read; that's so messed up. Thanks for sharing.

> But my polygraph took a couple hours and after a while in that room, being asked the same questions over and over, I honestly started to wonder if I was, somehow, a terrorist and they knew it but I didn't.

That's essentially the purpose of polygraph "testing". Its reliability as a test is no better than coin flipping, the only reason it is used is to create pressure and thereby lead to confessions.

I think it's worse than coin flipping. Flipping a coin cannot be interpreted however you want

Really? Perhaps previous run-ins with police have made me immune to “cop logic”, but my polygraph experience was an over-the-top good cop/bad cop routine. You’re being filmed and “the supervisor” supposedly watching kept making demands to review certain items. For some reason we spent half an hour on a tangent of them trying to get me to admit I was having an affair. From what evidence, who the hell knows? Completely ridiculous.

0/10 never again, very happy to be out of that world

(I’m also convinced that the good cop/bad cop routine is WAY more effective than whatever pseudoscience the polygraph machine possesses.)

The polygraph machine is, of course, mostly just a prop. Although I think perhaps some operators believe in it, there's actually no evidence to show that of the things it measures can with any reliability determine whether a person is telling the truth or lying.

It's not a 'test', it's an interrogation. They are trying to convince you that they know more than they actually do to try and stress you and push you into making a confession.

I’ve heard it suggested that the point of the polygraph isn’t to serve as a prop or to discern truth from falsehood, but rather to direct the interrogation toward topics that seem to cause the interviewee the most stress.

Do you think terrorists identify with that word?

When you take a polygraph you sign a document saying not to spread the actual questions asked. Specifically he's talking about the counter intelligence portion which is 4 questions centralized around things terrorists would do.

Hmm, if this is in connection with the US government, that would be a violation of Title 18 US Code 1001.

No, not unless they're insane. It looks more like they deliberately worded it to appeal to mentally retarded individuals suffering from persecutory delusions and the like. 'Terrorist Foiled' sounds better than 'Delusional Idiot Entrapped', especially when taxpayers are footing the bill.

You got a lot of downvotes, but the themes in your comment are, in fact, eerily close to reality, even though a lot of people wouldn't believe it.

The Intercept has a long-running series documenting the Security State prosecuting people for terrorism, who never were terorrists -- many are mentally ill people given plots and weapons by the FBI: https://theintercept.com/2017/09/03/the-fbi-pressured-a-lone...

See the full series and list of stories here: https://trial-and-terror.theintercept.com/

The legal requirements for entrapment are quite forgiving

"identify" is a tricky word, because you might not think of yourself as an X, but you might see how someone might call you an X.

Also, some terrorists likely do, some maybe not.

Sadly, some people believe that the polygraph and other 'lie-detector' tests are infallible. Here's a recent article about the British "Jeremy Kyle Show" (a reality show, I believe) being axed after one of its guest committed suicide after 'failing' a lie-detector test. [1]

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-48279613

What if one answered with "I answered that question already" -- would they be forced to come up with new questions?

They tell you that you must answer yes or no only.

Are you allowed to overlay the "yes" or "no" with different intonations? If not, then you can tell the truth and nothing but the truth, but you can't tell the whole truth in your answers.

> If not, then you can tell the truth and nothing but the truth, but you can't tell the whole truth in your answers.

Polygraph "examinations" aren't testimony where you are sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth; nor are they actually a mechanism of "detecting lies" (a task at which they are ludicrously useless, per all research); they are psychological ordeals which are employed solely to create stress and cause people to break if they have anything to hide.

Or break even if you have nothing to hide. If you put me under enough physiological stress, I'd probably say anything you want me to say to get me out of it. Different people probably have different tolerance, which is probably what they are actually testing.

So what if you just did yoga or meditate while making huge pauses between the yes/no answers? That way you kill the stress and they can only ask each question once or twice before time is up. Letting them stress you is letting them win.

There are stories of people taking undetectable microdoses of tranquilizers to beat the polygraph. Think of it as the placebo effect countering pseudoscience.

My guess is that they fail you.

One aspect of a polygraph test is to hammer the same questions over and over at staggered intervals and see if the signal response differs.

If we keep pushing bogus information with enough frequency, slowly it will build up the intended belief and eventually it will be perceived as true. I think your situation was a perfect example of that though it hadn't materialized to the last stage.

It's disgusting that polygraphs are still in use and their results taken seriously, especially in modern and developed countries like Canada and the US ... Call me next time and I'll flip a coin for you instead

The polygraph is a security blanket for spooks. If they fail to notice one of their agents betraying them they can justify their trust with their security blankets and pinky swears.

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