Italy proposes tax on savings hidden in safety deposit boxes

> Some European country tax 90% of income...

This is untrue.

Source? European, never heard of this. Though a 15% rate is pretty normal around here.

Yeah, and all americans have guns and ford f150. /s

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/personal-income-ta...

I recall income tax over 110%. It was author in scandinavian country.

70% is pretty normal if you count all compulsory insurances.

Reaching 90% is hard, even if you count additional taxes. Take Sweden, where you first remove 31.42% social tax, then 60% income tax, then 25% VAT. You will still end up with 24% of money left of the initial payroll.

>I guess we're just moving closer to "the mob" seizing the property of others, just because its constituents want it more.

Well, the law is either what some people want to be or what a majority/plurality of people want to be.

The first is not very democratic and can be self serving for the private interests of a few.

If the latter however want a wealth tax, or even if they propose that "90% of wealth should be made public" then that could be made into law, regardless of what the constitution says.

That wouldn't be "mob" but just law.

In fact, the "Fifth Amendment" is already an amendment, showing that the constitution is already not a un-alterable source of divine guidance.

At some point, perhaps the whole of the constitution could be considered a BS product of its own time, and replaced with a different set of operating rules.

You're forgetting the effective "wealth tax" of inflation that hurts everyone across the board, except for those favored interests with access to the newly-printed money.

Of course, the effects of inflation are felt most strongly by the poor and those on fixed income, for whom the rising cost of basic goods means that their meager income purchases less and less each year.

> This isn't even a tax.

It's a variation on wealth taxes. If the dictionary doesn't consider that to be a tax, then the dictionary definition is wrong. Notably, that definition also seems to imply that property taxes aren't taxes, despite them being millennia old.

> This is a result of Pollock v Farmers' Loan and Trust Co., which affirmed the government directly stealing wealth is unconstitutional.

That is a horribly misleading summary. Pollock said a tax on rental income is effectively equivalent to a tax on the property itself, and since property taxes are direct taxes, such taxes must be apportioned to the states according to population per the Constitution. (Hence why the 16th amendment, whose sole purpose was to overturn Pollock, refers to "income, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States").

Most notably, the Constitution explicitly refers to this kind of tax using the word "tax," and explicitly permits Congress to levy this kind of tax (albeit with some conditions), so your assertion that this kind of tax is not a tax is flatly contradicted by the people who wrote the basic instruments of the US government.

Not to mention that the US Constitution hardly matters at all when discussing the ability of Italy to levy taxes on its own citizens and residents, unless Italy became a US state in the past few days...

That dictionary definition was probably written in a place that doesn't have a wealth tax.

Even that dictionary definition misses property tax, which is surely a tax.

Not on wealth, you're not.

Assets sitting in a safety deposit box are wealth, not income. Wealth taxes, where assessed, are typically low single digit percent or sub-1%.

>There's no way anyone would remove property to avoid a tax of course.

I'm not sure if you're being facetious but people with something to hide will just get a safe deposit box in another country. It's like a one day drive to cover all of Italy and let's be honest here, most of the safe deposit boxes that suddenly need emptying won't be in the south.

Just to confirm, the first income tax bracket in Italy is 23%. Seems like it really pays to be a tax evasor.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/taxes/income-taxe...

North/South divide predates ww2.

Mind-boggling amounts of corruption (for a western country) as well as various mob related issues that are concentrated in the south. Historically, Italy has had (and arguably still does) poor transport infrastructure, so being in the northern part of the country is closer to the rest of Europe.

As Italian I could try to give you an explanation about the difference between North and South Italy. Basically it derives from the unification process, during the last part of 19th century. Someone thinks the South payed more in this process. Someone else argues that it depends on economic and political differences present before the unification. North was an ensemble of little states, South a large state related to Spanish monarchy.

I have a very simple explanation - geography and climate. The north has cold winters, if one does not work hard they will freeze and starve. Hard work is embedded in the region for generations. In the south you won't freeze in winter, so you don't need to prepare fuel in summer, life has been slower and does not demand as much of hard work to survive. The summer heat in the south also inhibits the activity somewhat, and north may have a tad easier access to trade... I believe these two factors - geography and climate - have a prevalent influence on the development of all societies anywhere in the world.