People reluctant to use their Octopus cards for fear of leaving a paper trail
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> For additional context, since this photo doesn't show the whole scene: the line at every ticket machine stretched back 10+ meters.
Anecdotal, but I've never seen a queue at a ticket machine in Hong Kong. Octopus is so entrenched as a vital necessity in Hong Kong you'll even hear comics making jokes about one of the only essentials in HK is an Octopus card (while things like clothing are optional)
It's not at all like the minimal copycat that Oyster in London is. Your Octopus can be used in lieu of card or cash payments in many retail outlets, restaurants, vending machines, even some taxis, all over the SAR, not just on HK island.
The downside is every single thing you do is logged and tracked against your card, and associating a card with an individual is just one MTR ride with facial recognition away.
There are essentially two kinds, one that's unregistered, and one where you actually enter your personal information and get your name printed on the card, so that the system can disable the card and the balance can be replaced if the card is lost.
At that point it's basically as trackable as any debit card.
I don't really see the difference between that and Octopus, now, except that contactless debit cards are a federated global system, which seems superior. Is the difference that Octopus cards can be obtained arbitrarily and anonymously?
Because nobody gives a crap about being tracked by debit card usage, and they're already deanonymized.
To get a contactless debit (or credit) card, I need proof of ID and proof of address.
Octopus cards were launched in 1997. Oyster cards didn't come to London until 2003.
Contactless debit cards didn't come into play with TfL until 2014, and Oyster cards never really extended beyond transport uses in that time.
In comparison, retail establishments, vending machines, parking meters, car parks, were accepting Octopus cards as early as 2004.
There's a lot to be said for that momentum / inertia, which Oyster cards never had, and the accessibility to absolutely everyone without any requirements beyond having the cash to pay for it (approx £15, with £5 deposit for the card and £10 initial credit)
(It's also worth noting I dumped my Oyster card within a couple of months of contactless cards being accepted with TfL, while I still have my Octopus card as it's vital in HK in a way that Oyster never was in London)
But is that a big issue given all these people are actively avoiding using the Octopus to avoid being tracked? I guess Octopus doesn’t have age limits, I think you need to be 11 or higher to get a UK contactless card for yourself these days. Don’t know if that’s a legal minimum or just a banking decision.
Edit: You can get prepaid cards too: https://www.mastercard.co.uk/en-gb/frequently-asked-question...
Funnily enough, if you go to the more hipster parts of London, cash isn't accepted and you need a debit or credit card to pay in an increasingly large number of stores. Anecdotally, food trucks and markets often will prefer cards over cash (I ask which they prefer if I can do either) in London, while in HK I'll attempt to pay for everything by card first, and unless it's an upscale restaurant, I'll usually be rejected and get told cash/octopus only.
I also don't think you get contactless with prepaid cards. There's the whole up to 3x £30 guarantee / fraud angle that can't be covered adequately on a prepaid card. (On a regular debit card, you can do up to 3x £30 transactions without authorisation, and if any of them are fraudulent, your bank will reimburse you, regardless of whether or not your card has been (reported) stolen)
Given that a lot of the protestors were students maybe they're buying child tickets rather than paying double with an anonymous adult Octopus.
When did that become a thing? I've always known Octopus to be cash only. Can non-resident foreigners also top up by CC?
Did they appear in any photos? There's a trail.
Did they buy anything in that locality?
Did they call someone in that locality?
Just not using a card would seem to offer little protection unless they take care of at least the above.
Also what happens when you dont have the option to “adjust your behavior”? Like at least in Germany payments above some amount I don’t remember can not legally be paid in cache.
>The downside is every single thing you do is logged and tracked against your card, and associating a card with an individual is just one MTR ride with facial recognition away.
Possible, although facial recognition seems to be used much less widely in HK than the mainland.
Perhaps police checkpoints are another concern: you might get stopped entering or leaving the MTR if your Octopus card shows you were at one of the stations where the protests took pkace. Although, isn't it easy enough to get off at Central (where the protests were not taking place) and walk over to Admiralty/Wan Chai (where they were), only 1-2 stops away?
Personally, I'd be more worried about discussing the protests via SMS or WeChat than getting there on my Octopus Card. Disclaimer: not a HK citizen.
A large percentage of the resident cardholders have the personalized cards because it means not having to use cash at machines to add value.
Isn’t it more likely that, for example, many of these people had to come from far away to protest and they simply do not have an octopus card or it’s not valid for this zone?
Which is to say that the desire for anonymity is the actual cause of the long queues, unless you think a lot of dark-haired and yellow-skinned foreigners who never had Octopus cards were flooding to the protest, which is unlikely.