Comment by bubblewrap | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bubblewrap | Hacker News Reader

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Your claim was "Afaik quality of life and income collapsed during the 90s far faster than it ever had during the Soviet Union." - so you are making a claim about the time before the 1990ies, which I refuted with the example of Ukrania.

Edit: as for the article, it doesn't seem to support the claim that the (allegedly US inspired) "shock therapy" in the 90ies was the cause for all the hardship or the deaths. It mentions economic problems in the 80ies and the "shock therapy" preventing a famine in the 90ies.

Nevertheless, I find it all very interesting. But a lot of the articles that have been mentioned in the comments sound a bit like apologist of socialism. A lot of finger pointing and blaming seems to be going on, and I don't necessarily find it all immediately trustworthy. Even to this day, many people are still around who believe Socialism was better. Any article making such claims should provide a lot of data to support it. Mere claims of "person x sad that and then everything went downhill" are not sufficient.

I think you are being carried away by things I didn’t say.

I don’t think communism under the USSR was better than any law abiding capitalist society. In fact it was objectively worst. But what happened in Russia in the 90s was brutal, reducing lifespans of the average Russian and bringing back poverty that I don’t believe was at all common in the 1980s USSR. It was unfettered Capitalism with no regard for the rule of law, and privatisation was placed above everything including legal and political precepts. The result was a dystopian nightmare that led to Russians accepting autocracy under Putin as a viable alternative. And it was all done under the aegis of American Economist who were sent over to “help”.

It may be as you said, it just isn't reflected in the article you linked to. That's all I said.

I would also be careful because there seems to be a lot of finger pointing and many people being eager to blame other people to distract from their own failings. I wouldn't believe anything that is written about it at face value.

Also you changed the goal post, now you compare to the 1980s, not all the time of the Soviet union. That's veering into "no true Scottsman" territory.

I'm sure there were many people in the 80ies who lived a dystopian nightmare in Russia, too. We just don't hear about them, because they were locked away and eventually died.

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