Comment by Apreche | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Apreche | Hacker News Reader

In my experience it's heavily tied to whether you are a GUI person or a command line person.

Most of the developers I know are using Macs, with only myself and a few others preferring Linux. The Mac guys use the terminal, as it is a necessity. But they are relatively slow at it. Most of them don't even really use tab completion as much as they could, if at all. They also use the mouse very heavily, especially in their web browser, finder, and text editor.

The developers I know that prefer Linux, including myself, freaking fly on the keyboard. We hardly ever touch the mouse. We tab complete like crazy. We use a ton of keyboard shortcuts for everything. Doesn't matter if we are vim or emacs, it's keyboard keyboard keyboard.

I think the explanation is very simple. If you are a mouse using person, and you compare a Linux system to a Mac, the Mac will be more comfortable, especially with that great touchpad. If you are a keyboard person, the Mac will drive you insane and Linux will be happy land. People tend to change their software rather than change themselves, so mouse people end up on Macs.

If you are a keyboard person, the Mac will drive you insane and Linux will be happy land.

I disagree. As a keyboard person, I can move way faster with the mac than I can with Linux. Linux' keyboard-based workflow is constantly playing catch-up with Mac OS X's (like Expose). On a mac, I can get by without hardly ever using the mouse.

I'm a vi person, btw, since we're on the subject of religious flamewars. :)

I am forced to use a Mac at work, and I use expose and such quite a bit. Yet, despite using it for over a year, it's still just way more painful for me. Here are my three major issues.

1) Animations are nice, but slow. Things like Expose/Spaces animations just get in my way because I already know where I'm going, I don't need the visual help. Just like I don't need to turn a light on to walk around my apartment in the dark. I like it when things happen instantly.

2) Not enough keyboard shortcuts. For example, what's the shortcut to move a window to the adjacent virtual desktop? Oh there isn't one, you must drag it with the mouse.

3) Control vs. Command is probably my number one peeve. What's the shortcut in Firefox to open a new tab? Command+t. What's the shortcut in the terminal to go to the beginning of the line? ctrl+a. In Windows or Linux I have caps lock converted to ctrl, and use it for everything. In Mac, I have to switch between cmd and ctrl all the time. My thumb ends up doing work meant for my pinky.

I also have some non-keyboard related issues with OSX. The first example that always comes to mind is when I want to show hidden files in the finder.

1) Can be changed through OnyX.

2) PITA; I agree.

3) Can be changed through keyboard shortcuts. http://guides.macrumors.com/Changing_Keyboard_Shortcuts

Et.Cetera: defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE; killall Finder

So, one issue's not too bad, then?

1) That's another thing that bothers me about OSX. Everything you want to do requires some extra plugin or package. Just because I can fix a problem with duct tape doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

3) I've tried that. I am a nerd after all. Go change the Firefox keyboard shortcuts from command+t to ctrl+t. Let mek now how that works out for you. When I do it, it changes in the menu, and the menu lights up, but no new tabs appear.

I also know about defaults write com.apple.finder... But that is an all or nothing situation. I can't hide/show on a directory basis. I also can't quickly turn it on and off. In Linux I can do a quick toggle with a shortcut like ctrl+h. In Windows at least there's a hidden GUI button to do it. In the famously easy to use OSX is the only OS that requires black magic.

I also forgot to add that the OSX Terminal still does not support 256 colors. It also really screws up trying to render fonts such as Proggy. I know there are other alternative terminals, but they have other issues. Even the humble gnome-terminal beats them all handily.

Animations (Spaces/Expose) cannot be disabled or changed through OnyX, am not sure what you are talking about.

OS X is not perfect, the real problem for me is that some people just think it is

My main problem with OS X is that Alt + D (plus Alt + B and Alt + F) just don't work as it should, like in any sane Terminal, there's no difference between Alt and Alt Gr on a Mac, sad, very sad. Also I would love to see a real package manager, pkgutil is horrible...

You can fix that in 2 minutes:

http://blog.macromates.com/2006/word-movement-in-terminal/

Thanks! Now, I am happy with "Terminal.app".

You can get the alt key to function properly in the terminal. Look here:

http://tungchingkai.blogspot.com/2009/05/how-to-send-alt-x-i...

On my laptop I hold command+control and hit left or right arrow to move a window to the next space. I also can press CMD+1,2,3,etc to move to that space so I can quickly move to a specific space.

Edit: I just realized CMD+Control+L/R arrow to move windows is a result of running SizeUp. Sorry about that.

I like having command and control. I get Emacs-like navigation in every text box without giving up Cmd-[aefbnpt] for other things like select all, new tab or window, find in page, etc.

I don't use Spaces because it falls short of what I got used to on Linux, but not having a keyboard shortcut for that would be annoying. Perhaps SizeUp or Divvy supports Spaces, I picked up both of those apps this year and can't imagine living without them now.

> Control vs. Command is probably my number one peeve

Control vs. Command is one of the things OSX does _so_ right. Command is used for OS/window level commands, leaving Control available for application functions. Heck, both MacVim and Emacs default to compatible keybindings in windowed mode, with Cmd-S saving files, and not needing to worry what random keybindings the OS might want to use that conflict.

> My thumb ends up doing work meant for my pinky.

That's purely user preference, I don't think God intended your pinky to open new tabs in Firefox.

The motion required is equivalent -- you don't have to move your hand to get to the Command button, and frankly CAPS+t is a more difficult motion than Command-t (and any Textmate user is pretty accustomed to the latter).

Regarding your second point: Click on the window and hit ctrl-right arrow.

> What's the shortcut in Firefox to open a new tab?

't'.

You're using Vimperator, right?

Depends on the window manager. Gnome for example is horrible for navigating by keyboard and you'll constantly fall back on the mouse. XMonad on the other hand is pretty much entirely driven by keyboard.

OS X has plenty of keyboard shortcuts. In general I find them to be much more reliable and consistent than any of the Linux software I have used (ran Ubuntu for ~6 years).

This is full of gross generalizations. I use keyboard shortcuts for everything and know how to tab complete. Everyone I know that uses a mac to dev on does as well.

I change the keyboard shortcut to focus the menu bar from Ctrl-F2 to Ctrl-2 so I can type it comfortably from the home row (Caps lock is mapped to Control). Once you can focus the menu bar everything is a few keystrokes away. I couldn't live without Ctrl-2 f <RET> o <right arrow> to open recent files.

I'm a Mac guy, I'm a developer, I use the terminal, I use tab completions and most Mac developers I know also use them.

But I also use Linux on the server and to the terminal it makes no difference. I could be on a Windows laptop and the terminal would look exactly the same.

There's a dualism here. I'm also a keyboard driven person. That's why plugins like Divvy are an absolute necessity.

If I were to only use a terminal (which, due to vmail and pianobar, is becoming even more common for me), then it really wouldn't matter for me where I was. But it's the other stuff that keeps me hacking away on my MacBook Pro. Wifi just working, the OS automatically selecting the right printer, the right balance of "enter the administrator password to continue", a selection of great web browsers, mail clients, popular games, etc.

Mac gives the best of two worlds. You can be a keyboard hacker and be super productive, then you can take a break and casually browse the web with the fantastic touchpad.

I'm a pretty hard-core CLI person. I spend the majority of my time on mac in either terminal or emacs (cocoa emacs, though I rarely use the menu).

Before I was running OS X, my laptops ran NetBSD. My workflow changed very little (I got over focus-follows-mouse), but I can use omnigraffle now.

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