Comment by maxxxxx | Hacker News Reader

Comment by maxxxxx | Hacker News Reader

Let’s hope this will soon be extended to other animals like bears, mountain lions and other who have huge ranges they usually live in. They develop a lot of psychotic behavior in captivity like constant pacing and others. Not sure if it’s much better but at a minimum they should be kept in large areas like parks where you then drive through so they have some area to roam.

I really don't like zoos because the animals do often look sad and in limited space (I really prefer aquariums, those without dolphins), but at the same time: you have to remember the purpose of a zoo.

Many of them take animals that are rescues, have serious injuries and many can't be returned to the wild. Some zoos have breeding programs and attempt breeding and release work. Some zoos even have endlings, the last of a species that can only survive (for now) in captivity.

Most zoos are small and bad, but there are a few good ones that try to provide a good amount of space and comfortable living for animals. The San Diego Zoo, Cincinnati Zoo and Melbourne Zoo are all good examples.

Zoos like the San Diego wildlife park (it's separate from the older San Diego Zoo, and outside the city a little) are good this way: they have lots of room for the animals to roam and it's more like their natural habitats.

Also, with some animals, keeping them in zoos in the best place for them because they wouldn't survive in the wild. Many zoos have permanently injured birds, for instance, that can't fly any more, and there's also albino animals (like white tigers) that can't live in the wild.

Some zoos also undertake conservation efforts such as captive breeding and reintroduction. [0] is just one example. I hope bills like this don't swing the pendulum too far and end up hindering conservation.

[0] http://www.torontozoo.com/Conservation/captive-breeding.asp

I think that captive breeding with the goal of reintroduction would fall under the welfare and best interest or scientific research clauses introduced and amended by the legislation.

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/S-203/third-...

I think a middle ground can be found.

While I really love the Toronto zoo, watching their lynx pace back and forth in the cage, digging a path into the ground, that really impacted my impression of zoos generally. Perhaps large[0] cats like that don't belong in small enclosures.

[0]Lynx are actually much smaller than I expected, and bobcats even smaller than that. Still, they need a large space to thrive.

I've seen a lynx (mountain lion) close-up too, and they're not small. They're the height of a medium size dog, but far more muscular. They can easily take down a human, and have been known to kill humans (usually women) when very hungry and too close to civilization. Of course, they're not the size of a Siberian tiger; those things are huge.

As for needing a large space to thrive: that would be nice, but they can't really live in the wild in most places any more because stupid humans will kill them. This is the whole reason deer are so overpopulated in many places in the US; lynxes are their normal predators.

Mountain lions are pumas, not lynx, and quite a bit bigger.

Correct. Also called cougar.

There’s an aviary that does exactly this in Salt Lake City with bald eagles, vultures, flamingos, owls, and others. It’s worth a visit if in the area. https://tracyaviary.org/

Most if not all captive raptors have some kind of illness. Interestingly, sometimes it's actually a mental illness. The most common example I know of is being imprinted on humans rather than their own species. These birds simply wouldn't survive in the wild. In fact, they won't even survive in captivity if kept in the same enclosure as another member of their own species.

What's the good reason for not extending it to cow, dog, cat etc...? Where do you draw the line?

Taste

Each of the animals you listed are domesticated.

It’s hard to draw a line. I would however support better treatment of farm animals and also make it more difficult for people to get pets. We foster dogs and I find it hard to understand how people can get a puppy for the kids for Christmas and then dump it a year later at a shelter it just at the roadside. As a society we should be much more respectful of animals but this raises a few very inconvenient questions that are hard to answer.

That's a fair question. Just think about how many cats and dogs are stuck inside small apartments most of their lives.

Or on a roof/balcony. Living in Guadalajara, I've wanted to put many dogs out of their misery. Left on the roof as thief-deterrent to go completely crazy.

Our treatment of animals (pets, meat) is one of the indicators of how primitive we still are as a civilization... or, god forbid, species.

The fact that we keep animals as pets and use them as meat indicates that we are the superior species and by extension we are the most glorious civilization.

To be fair we treat people really badly too. We just suck as a species.

To some extent that's a matter of perspective and context. Keeping a Great Dane or even a Border Collie in a small apartment is a very different thing from keeping a Chihuahua in one.

For most people getting a Border Collie is really bad and just mean to the dog. These dogs are very smart and active and they lose their mind if they have nothing to do. They are working dogs, not pets.

Why just getting stuck in apartment or home? Most of the pet dogs here (in the US) are spayed/neutered so they have no reproductive purpose left. They are basically just living toys for the amusement of the owners.

How asinine. Humans and dogs have evolved (literally) a wonderful co-dependency over the last 10,000 years - it is not a one way street.

I agree with this sentiment. Seeing the way grizzly bears act in a zoo is pretty heartbreaking. They normally have ranges of hundreds of square kilometers. The pen i seen it in was less then 500 square meters for sure. It just kept pacing and throwing a log around kind of like a big dog. Then would do a round of the enclosure then back to pacing and the log.

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