Ask HN: Should CS university grads be unemployable due to lack of initiative?
Given the amount of self-teaching that can be done nowadays, doesn't it make more sense for software companies to prefer self-taught applicants over university grads?
I don't like the question. It's too open, what role are the "software companies" selecting a candidate for? What skills did the self taught applicant teach themselves? Which university course and how successful, what industry experience if any comes with it?
Generally I'd say a good degree shows rigorous study, flexibility a certain amount of persistence.
University graduates are often self-taught in many aspects - a degree however comes with a transcript given a brief overview of what the applicant should know and the level of their ability. To get this from a completely self-taught applicant without formal qualifications you'd need to test them thoroughly; why do this when you can choose from pre-tested stock.
As a complete outsider, the relationship between computer science and most software to me looks like that between physics and mechanical engineering.
I'm nowhere near being an IT employer, or computer scientist I just like sticking my oar in.
Learning subjects and doing well in school shows a potential employer that you are indeed capable succeeding in doing things that do not interest you. This is a skill that is important to employers.
In my opinion, getting your degree and teaching yourself or launching a product show two different types of initiative. If you've done both, you should get double points.
There may be a legitimate question hidden behind the non sequitur but if so one should ask that question, not require people to do some linguistic gymnastics to find the real question.
However I learned a lot in many areas that I wasn't (at the time) interested in.
I have come to the conclusion that, like desperate people in their forties still holding out for their One True Love and still staying single, employers are looking for someone who will come on like Neo from The Matrix, yet look, speak, think and get paid like Wally from the Dilbert strip.
I think the degree puts the "hard working, white collar, self-made man, bucked my own goat, got myself to where I am from nothing, Essex barrow boy, yadda yadda" interviewers off their stride. Some misplaced sense of snobbery, perhaps. I have seen them snap at me, yet treat a candidate with only a minor diploma with kid gloves.
And as for what I've done with myself since I got my degree ... applied for, literally, more than a thousand jobs, attended countless business breakfasts, attended VIP private viewings of art exhibits, appeared in front of and behind a TV camera, done a stint on a radio show as a presenter, given classes, studied languages, mathematics, poetry and art, seen my writings published in a number of different places, and taught my nephew stick fighting for his drama class.
Plus, I had the time somewhere to fit in some coding.
Unemployable? Lacking in initiative? Hardly.
If someone you think is a 'know nothing' gets hired instead of someone you view as technically skilled, you've learned something about that company. Maybe you don't actually want to work there.
College isn't a magical pill, what you get out of it is proportionate to what you put into it. If you're motivated enough to teach yourself to program, you're probably motivated enough to learn a lot in college as well.
Being self taught and being college educated are not mutually exclusive.
Some universities offer a different degree program where you learn some EE & chip design along with software. When these programs are done well they are great.
I learned a ton in school and have applied concepts and took ideas and expanded upon them. Now I'm not just hacking away at a piece of ice, now I understand everything I'm doing and why one way is faster than another