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Comment by m463 | Hacker News Reader

With trust, trade is unlimited.

That said, we should be able to say NO - and this includes apple. For instance, why should we have to identify ourselves to apple?

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AFAIK, you don't. An iPhone will work fine without signing in to any Apple service and you can opt out of all Apple data collection right in the device.

I've set up several testing iDevices for work with no Apple accounts.

The only thing you can't do without an Apple account is to use the Apple services like the App Store and iCloud and other paid services.

I think even software updates can be done without an account, but I'm not sure since I haven't tried this.

What good is an iPhone without access to the App Store?

An iPhone can do a lot without any apps installed besides the stock apps. Pictures, calling, texting, web browsing, many many services online with a web interface like banking tinder facebook and many other popular platforms. The limitations of the original iPhone had some issues but Apple has slowly integrated the best features. That brings me to another point, many features apple copied from jailbreakers and you can also jailbreak some versions of ios and run all sorts of apps not in the app store.

People bought lots of iPhones before the App Store existed. Before Cydia even existed. They were pretty good. You could send SMS messages, browse the web, take photos, and play it like an iPod even.

FWIW, before Cydia there was Installer, and before that something whose name I am not quite remembering (and don't care to look up rocky now)... and I am pretty sure it was running on over 50% of all those original iPhones, as people really found it strange to have a cell phone without even a single game (even Nokia candy bar phones had Snake). (But yeah: at least some people clearly still wanted the device. But that was in a world where there wasn't tempting reason to as everything was accessible with a web browser. In 2019, that reality no longer exists, and without access to app store on a smartphone there are many many things you are cut off from.)

Almost everything still is available in a web browser. There are very few apps I use on my phone that aren't a web browser or system apps.

I think that you should be able to install your own app store like fdroid which doesn't require a sign in.

I think with the advent of web apps, the need for native iOS apps will decrease, at least in some areas. Fortunately, this happens to coincide with the advancements in internet speed and coverage.

In a few years: You want to play a game? Fine, let's bing it in Safari and play right there.

"there's an app for that" soon will become "there's a web app for that".

That was the original intention for the iPhone, 12 years ago. Developers wailed.

My dad does not use / allow iOS access to his location on his iPhone. I am nonplussed by this and have tried to convince him of the value and yet he will not enable it.

I agree with you. Of course, an iPhone can surf the web, make calls, take pictures, run the calculator, etc. However, lack of means to install apps without the App Store (besides sideloading), can render any phone pretty much useless.

Android has problems of its own though. Yes, you could install apps easily without access to the Play Store. But most Android apps rely upon Google's Play Services one way or another, so those apps wouldn't work properly, if at all.

Good question, and we shouldn't need an account to download free apps, just as we don't on the desktop.

Only when I download I paid app do I want to identify myself so that I can download it again.

You do need an app to install via the app store on a mac desktop. if you mean via external methods then jailbreak? if you’re asking for apple to allow anybody to release an ipa on a site and allow download and install then this horse is dead already

I'm suggesting that app stores (iOS, Mac, Google Play) shouldn't require users to create an account just to download free apps. Partly for privacy, and partly because it's an unnecessary hurdle for users to jump over, and partly because it causes other issues like my Purchased list being polluted with too many free apps, making it hard to find what I actually purchased.

It's my device, not Apple's or Google's, so I should be able to download a third-party app without identifying myself to the app store owner.

In my last comment, I did not ask for iDevices to be able to install apps from outside the iOS app store.

It's a phone, web browser, e-mail client, you can send and receive texts, use it for reminders, calendar, to play music, to stream music.

Quite a lot really.

for specifically the tracking issues, i do my best to avoid installing an app. currently the only thing on my phone that didn’t come stock are various chat apps (discord, steam, twitch) and the kindle app.

Can you use alternative app store on your non sign-in apple device without rooting it ?

Because on android you can.

I have not set up an iPhone from scratch in over a year (in particular I'm uncertain if I have set up a device from scratch with ios 12, I know I have upgraded one)

Does your comment apply to non-phone iOS devices, or does it include iPhones?

With the latest OS, do you have to identify yourself or create an apple id to start using an iPhone?

Also, is this in the US or outside of the US?

(thanks!)

I'm fairly certain that you don't have to identify in any way at least where I live (Germany). You need to register your Apple account with a valid E-Mail address, which can be as fake as you want it to be. Store credits can be bought anonymously with cash at gas stations or other brick and mortar stores.

But a SIM-card is normally not anonymous, no?

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