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Comment by komali2 | Hacker News Reader

I hear you and understand you, but your argument is essentially nullified by the existence of Taiwan.

We have proof positive that the Chinese culture is not only compatible with democracy, it flourishes beneath it.

I'm not saying Chinese culture is incompatible with democracy. I'm talking about eduction mainly. If you look into post WWII histories of Taiwan/South Korea, it wont be hard for you to find a few dictators within the democracies[1]. I personally think during those periods the citizens of those democracies were catching up on how democracy works.

1. examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Chung-hee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek

Could not fantastic education provide an intelligent enough population to handle democracy within a single generation? I.e.... exactly what happened in Taiwan upon the removal of martial law?

The USA managed it swaths of the country spread across a frontier.

But you have to admit there are risks for the switching, i.e. there are countries that become worse after the switching. Personally, I dont think democracy is the cure to the current problems. Education probably is. And I haven't been presented with enough evidence to think otherwise.

Like, did Taiwan become drastic better after removal of martial laws? Or is Taiwan at a better position today mainly because of the help of U.S.? Is there any other third world democratic countries that have developed as fast or faster than China, who is NOT a U.S. ally?

Which democracy are you thinking of that 'became worse after switching'? I can't think of any, though I can think of a few countries that mostly botched the switch and ended up in a sort of pseudo-democracy.

How would education help under the current regime? Xi jinping isn't going anywhere until he dies, and Party members aren't elected (well some kinda are).

What good does education do if it doesn't drive government changes? What changes would the PRC allow at all?

I think its a bit premature, but do you really think China under a democratic system would be better for the world?

What would Chinese populism look like when it eventually emerges given more democratic features?

Are you sure we are ready for a Chinese Trump? and for the silent majority of China to dictate foreign policy?

I'm from the school of "be careful what you wish for".

We have a competent Chinese Trump today in the form of xi jinping - the difference being instead of being limited to merely separating children the children of Other from their Parents and throwing them in jail, Jinping is directing the wholesale imprisonment and "reeducation" of entire religions, and occasionally just taking their organs from them.

I'll take a democratically elected trump that is gone in at most 8 years over the now irremovable xi jinping.

So yes, democracy is unilaterally the better option for China.

have you talked to any Chinese people and how many of them oppose this reeducation of entire religions? I'm just curious whether that will still happen in your planned democratic China.

Could be argued that anyone who watches propaganda on Chinese TV daily isn't particularly fit to have that discussion.

It's not like in the West where people are critical of this kind of stuff. They've really excelled at developing a "hive mind" mentality with what the state media put out.

Assuming you are not living in China, could you please go ask some Chinese around you? There are really plenty of Chinese living abroad.

In a democratic China the Uighurs will have representatives. If they don't, it's not democratic yet.

Ask other democratic nations if they can get away with voting for systematic oppression of a people via a vote.

Historically, decentralizing power (i.e. via democracy) leads to less shittiness for more people.

In any case, what possible reason would the average Chinese person have to systematically oppress the Uighurs or falun gong? They're only oppressed now because their religion poses a threat to the cultural control the Party exerts over the people. In a democracy, that control vanishes.

>In any case, what possible reason would the average Chinese person have to systematically oppress the Uighurs or falun gong?

This question is crucial to indicate that you have no idea about ordinary Chinese people. You need to sit down with some Chinese to talk about it if you are really interested. So I encourage you to find some first gen immigrant from mainland China currently living in SFBA. It wont be hard to find them. I can even direct you to relevant social media sites if you like.

Under democracy, people will work against the Chinese Trump.

I don't think the trade conflict with China is without concession of the Democrats though. The Mexican conflict is.

And Trump will be gone soon, so there's that

China is commuting mass genocide against the Uighur people, has a surveillance state beyond that of any other nation, it is clearly intending on annexing Taiwan in 5 years whether Taiwan likes it or not, massacred protestors in Tiananmen Square, has a dictator for life, and it didn’t need a democracy or populism to achieve any of that.

Yes. A democratic China would be better for the world.

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