Hacker News Reader

Comment by brianmc21 | Hacker News Reader

I feel as though having children will make a lot of people very happy. But there is also a significant part(>1%) of the population that would be miserable.

I believe a lot of the unhappiness is often from someone who was pressured into a choice they didn't critically think about or didn't want but caved in. Even if the pool of people is small the experience could be quite negative. Where as all the people who always wanted them will be happy.

I took care of my brother and sisters a lot as a child and it made it very clear that I never wanted children.

View on HN

There are a lot of things I didn't enjoy as a child that I enjoy as an adult. Raising children is different than caring for siblings, no disrespect to your personal choice.

==I took care of my brother and sisters a lot as a child and it made it very clear that I never wanted children.==

Being a parent is not the same as taking care of your siblings. Using the experience of one to justify your decisions in another is short-sighted.

How many parents have you ever heard say, "I wish I didn't have kids"?

I've heard a lot of parents say something along those lines, though usually softened a bit: "I love my kids but if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have had them."

They love their kids but they would have preferred that their kids never existed? That doesn't sound like love.

Well, this reaction explains why people don't like to say it.

Plenty, my wife is a nurse and plenty of the women explain how they had one and then just never wanted another one after because of regret. The nurse closer to her age straight up says it. I got plenty of warnings from coworkers about having children and most of their wives pick up most of the slack. If you are gushing about your kids no one is going to open up about a taboo subject like that.

That is just one of the many reasons I don't want kids. I have plenty of functional health issues that make keeping on weight a chore never mind a pain free day and yet again that is just the tip of the iceberg.

==If you are gushing about your kids no one is going to open up about a taboo subject like that.==

This is true. Likewise, if you are explaining all the reasons you can't or don't want to have kids someone may be more likely to agree by saying "I wish I didn't have kids."

I don't disagree with what you have said, just know that taking care of your siblings is not the same as being the parent of a child (legally, emotionally, physically, etc.). When you compare them, it detracts from the broader point you have made.

People with kids love to complain about how terrible it is to have kids. But when you poll older people who had kids and ask them if they’d “do it over again” nine out of them say they would. Meanwhile, more than half of people who never had kids wish they had at least one. (See the Pew polling I linked above.)

My original post agreed with the Pew data. Most people would most likely be happy having children.

I am aware of this bias. My Grandmother in law is blunt about never having wanted children where as lots of people are just complaining due to stress. That is why I give more weight to people who have fully raised children and are no longer stressed out by them. My anecdotal evidence is similar to Pew.

My boss complains all the time but I know he doesn't regret it even thought he looks like he got hit by a train some days.

I prefer to focus on regret rates among childless men with vasectomies who had their operation after the age of 31. I say this because not having children =/= not wanting them at 45. There could be a lack of money, a partner, fertility issue etc that could all lead to this situation.

> How many parents have you ever heard say, "I wish I didn't have kids"?

I have heard a number of friends say this, though almost always indirectly. There is a real stigma associated with being unhappy with parenthood, but many people do not seem to enjoy the process.

From my own observations, eventually most parents adjust their own personal "bar" for happiness and more or less accept their lot. I'm sure they get something positive out of it, but it seems to be a tradeoff for other sources of happiness and life satisfaction which usually become unavailable to parents.

==I have heard a number of friends say this, though almost always indirectly.==

Is it possible you are inferring it a certain way because of your bias? For instance, I complain about having kid all the time, but I wouldn't give him up for anything.

==There is a real stigma associated with being unhappy with parenthood, but many people do not seem to enjoy the process.==

This is something only a non-parent would say. Nobody enjoys the sleepless nights, dirty diapers or unexplained whining, but those are part of the same process that leads from laughing, to crawling, to walking, to speaking, to reasoning.

==From my own observations, eventually most parents adjust their own personal "bar" for happiness and more or less accept their lot. I'm sure they get something positive out of it, but it seems to be a tradeoff for other sources of happiness and life satisfaction which usually become unavailable to parents.==

Your wording implies that you have never actually asked a parent if they get anything out of it, but just make an assumption to fit your mental model. Everything in life is a trade-off, that isn't the same as wishing you didn't do something.

> Is it possible you are inferring it a certain way because of your bias? For instance, I complain about having kid all the time, but I wouldn't give him up for anything.

Not being happy with parenting doesn't imply wanting to give up your child. It just means that you made a bad decision that you're now stuck with / making the best of.

It could be that I was simply reading into things, but I have been told directly by someone that it had been a bad choice. But as people do, they adapted and moved on, though their life is very different now and I barely recognize them anymore.

I've also known happy parents. It's just silly to say that parenting is automatically a happy event. Nothing in life is going to be enjoyable for every person.

So where's the line? If your niece lives with you while your sister is incarcerated does that "count" as being similar enough to parenthood to "justify" a choice to have or not have children? If you were a full time live-in nanny? If your dead beat uncle drops your baby cousin off at your house every day? Step-parent? Foster parent? Teacher?

It seems incredibly silly to completely discount all your life experience when making important decisions...

FWIW, I've known someone who very much wanted kids then she became a full time live in nanny. That changed her mind completely about having kids of her own. She still loves working with children, and she still works with kids, just not in a live-in situation. She'll probably work with children her whole (working) life.

>How many parents have you ever heard say, "I wish I didn't have kids"?

My mother said those exact words to me every single day. Either that are similar stuff like "you ruin my life, I wish you were never born."

But, it's not something that is socially acceptable to say, so how many times you've heard is is completely irrelevant. I doubt my mother would say that to anyone else. It's like saying "how many times have you seen someone say 'I am sexually attracted to children?' None? Ok, now we can conclude pedophilia and childhood sexual abuse doesn't exist!"

> How many parents have you ever heard say, "I wish I didn't have kids"?

More and more, now that the taboo is breaking down to some degree. This has been the subject of some recent press reporting.[0][1]

That said, it is disturbing to me, at least, how people’s having children might rewire their brains. They might like their new role only because of certain changes in brain chemistry that result from parenthood. Their fondness for being parents is therefore something forced on them in a way, it is not a matter of actual choice.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/09/love-re... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/11/breakin...

By that standard, existence is something forced on you in a way, not a matter of actual choice.

Newsflash: you are your biology. Your biology demands its continuation. Defy nature at your own peril.

https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy?...

"Our "psychological immune system" lets us feel truly happy even when things don't go as planned."

"Certain changes in brain chemistry" result in us adjusting to be approximately as happy as they always are even in situations which one would predict way less or way more happiness.

Yeah, his experience taking care of kids in no way prepares him to take care of kids.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com