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Comment by enriquto | Hacker News Reader

It would seem that he has some idiosyncratic neighbors, then. But they are not alone, a certain amount of people are strangely obsessed by the grass of their neighbors. My kids loved the dandelions of my grass and I let them grow, but then I received regular bullying by the old lady next to our place, who had a "perfect" french style garden, and looked at us as if we were some kind of savages. I actually found this bevavior rather funny.

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I don't care what my neighbors do, however cutting long grass helps prevent tick and flea infestations in my area so it does have a purpose. The ticks especially enjoy the long grass. I do however work towards planting more permaculture in my yard so that there's less grass to cut. The grass provides an excellent ground cover and builds up the soil in the meantime.

> cutting long grass helps prevent tick and flea infestations in my area so it does have a purpose

Not to mention helping to reduce the risk of rodent problems. Pest control and fire risk are the reasons why, in my city, your are legally required to keep your jungle down to a certain level.

Dandelions are fine, but for the sake of your neighbours it is kind to remove the heads before they seed. Having to continuously hand weed myriad young dandelion plants can be a pain, especially, I imagine if you are elderly.

I have an allotment, and you'll certainly get frowned at if you let your dandelions seed all over a neighbouring plot.

Well, those are things to consider, but the details depend on the country and the particular neighbourhood. Fortunately there are also people who prefer meadows to "perfect" green deserts.

I kinda enjoy both and I've found the hybrid model works best for me and my family (no complains from the neighbours, yet;).

Fortunately there are also people who prefer meadows to "perfect" green deserts.

And fortunately it's even possible (though pretty hard) to 'turn' people.

Couple of years ago I slowly started explaining in detail why pretty much anything is better as far as nature goes than a short lawn consisting of only grass, and also explaining that the idea that such lawn is the summum of gardening is purely a cultural and economical thing without much real benefits but just costing money for the owners of the lawn. This year my neighbour proudly said he would not be mowing a small piece of his fairly huge lawn because he wanted to see more bees and butterflies (which are abdundant in my own meadows) and he might not try to remove the moss this year. So now we're both happier than before. And my neighbour will spend less time and money. Sometimes life is simple yet good.

I quite happily have a meadow lawn. I do, however avoid cranesbill and dandelion in it because the seeds scatter so widely and are an annoyance to neighbours. I also have lots of rotting logs and a wildlife pond with native wetland plants. These don't annoy anyone.

In such situations I tend to go onto the meta level and ask them that they realize what they are doing at that moment: looking perfect is more important to them than acting like a perfect neighbour.

So something like: “I always thought of you as a good neighbour, because of your beautiful garden, but is complaining about your neighbours garden something a good neighbour would do?”

Usually they never bother you again then.

That particular phrasing comes across a mite hypocritical - if you admit that having a well-kept garden makes one a good neighbor, then you are admitting that your unkempt garden makes you a bad neighbor.

> if you admit that having a well-kept garden makes one a good neighbor, then you are admitting that your unkempt garden makes you a bad neighbor.

No, you aren't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

This isn't formal logic - it's basic reciprocal socialization. Humans believe in holding everyone to similar standards as a basic principle ("fairness"). You are simultaneously reaffirming your neighbor's standards for themselves, and rejecting them for yourself. This will be seen as hypocritical, and in the real world, if you try to defend this behavior by citing the Wikipedia article on "Affirming the consequent", you will rapidly find yourself on your neighbor's mental "pedantic asshole" list.

TL;DR Yeah, but I don't care.

> You are simultaneously reaffirming your neighbor's standards for themselves, and rejecting them for yourself.

Yes, because we are complex, subjective, multidimensional humans, and we can judge each other based on different referential systems. If I don't care about your subjective perspective, I don't have to prove myself in your eyes. And if I don't care what your referential system is then I'm only a hypocrite in your eyes.

- You have a clean yard, you must be a good person. I have a messy yard, but I like it / I don't care. I can still be a good person for other reasons, but I don't care to be that person in your eyes. I do care that you're pestering me with comments, so please stop.

1. That's not how the implication operator works

2. You don't necessary have to agree with the premise, but you're proposing it because you think the other person agrees with it.

Of course, there's a good chance the person you're talking to will not see it that way, instead making the same mistake dTal did.

I wouldn't call it a mistake. It definitely comes across as hypocritical, whether or not it "technically" is. You're essentially saying "I recognize this trait as valuable, however I reject your right to judge me on it".

HN on lawns and neighbours:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13907696

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12257883

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19667046

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10453383

I would guess that the neighbours mostly want to avoid the appearance of negligence in their neighbourhood which might impact house prices.

What a shitty neighborhood, when the main concern in the lives of your neighbors is the price of the houses they already own!

Dandelions used to be both cultivated and consumed, it is only in modern times that we've decided it's a weed.

Yet, the appropriate context to judge the contemporary dandelions is "modern times."

I have often purchased dandelion greens at my local farmer’s market - they are great sautéed!

Be sure to harvest when they're new. They turn tough and bitter with age.

Like us.

Or worse, bitter and weak.

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