Hyundai Motor Introduces Electric Double-Decker Bus | Hacker News Reader

Hyundai Motor Introduces Electric Double-Decker Bus

hyundaimotorgroup.com

73 pointsclouddrover28 comments

BYD double-decker electric buses have been in use in Futian district of Shenzhen for a couple years now.

And also in London, where a trial fleet of BYD double-deckers has been operating since 2015.

68 more electric double-deckers are due in London this summer, of which 37 are from ADL-BYD (ADL bus body with BYD battery/drivetrain) and 31 from British company Optare.

And the rest of the world won't touch them because they break down pretty much every week.

Reliability is very important for a bus, and BYD hasn't got that yet.

This has not been the experience in London which will soon have over 200 fully electric buses, most of which have BYD drivetrains. By all accounts, they have proven at least as reliable as their diesel counterparts.

>they have proven at least as reliable as their diesel counterparts

Things may have improved recently, but that certain was not the experience in Hong Kong:

"Five Hong Kong electric buses pulled from service in under two weeks due to glitches"[1]

"Hong Kong electric buses pulled from the road for third time in nine months"[2]

"Trial run of five Hong Kong electric buses delayed indefinitely due to bus stop bell problems"[3]

"KMB electric bus runs into trouble on first day of trial"[4]

[1] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2038314/...

[2] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2038314/...

[3] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/arti...

[4] http://www.ejinsight.com/20170801-kmb-electric-bus-runs-into...

Most of those stories are from 2016. Technology improves over time.

In 2011 there was a high-speed train crash in China and every questioned HSR in China.

Today China had 19,000 miles of track and carries 2 billion passengers a year.

It’s not hard to believe that initial electric buses had a few problems.

> Most of those stories are from 2016.

Here are a couple from 2018 and 2019:

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-201...

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/01/electric-bus-...

> Technology improves over time.

This is bus technology, not rocket surgery. The BYD buses in Albuquerque had door malfunctions, cracked and missing welds, brake issues, exposed high voltage cables, etc.:

https://www.cabq.gov/mayor/news/mayor-tim-keller-byd-will-be...

This doesn't have anything to do with the technology. It's just bad bus manufacturing.

”The BYD buses in Albuquerque had door malfunctions, cracked and missing welds, brake issues, exposed high voltage cables, etc”

Much of London’s electric bus fleet uses the BYD battery & drivetrain in combination with an ADL (Alexander Dennis) bus body. These units seem to be reliable and well-regraded.

Again, show me some links. Here are the bus inspection reports from Albuquerque. They're not great:

https://www.cabq.gov/mayor/build-your-dreams-mechanic-inspec...

China has almost 400,000 electric busses.

https://electrek.co/2019/03/20/chinese-electric-buses-oil/

How are those working?

You tell me. Just saying there are 400,000 doesn't speak to their quality or reliability.

If you have 400,000, you might care less about reliability.

If there is always another spare, a few breakdowns each day don't matter as much as they do in a smaller fleet.

Units in Indiana and Albuquerque, NM have not been performing with the advertised range:

https://www.ibj.com/articles/73113-indygos-new-electric-buse...

I believe the differences here for London are:

- Much milder winter temperatures. Certainly nothing like the -10F experienced in Indiana.

- Lower daily mileages. Even though London buses are operated intensively all day long, average speeds are low and a typical bus certainly wouldn’t exceed 200 miles in a day. There is plenty of buffer between what is demanded of the batteries and what they’re capable of.

> By all accounts

Do you have links to the accounts?

Nope. It is range that is the problem.

Hills, hot weather and cold weather make the advertised range impossible to achieve. Despite this BYD have been successful in the rest of the world. Some purchases have been driven by politics, the results not so good. But this is how we learn.

I very much like London's hybrid buses, it is so nice compared to diesel. In a diesel bus every single thing rattles, it is like being in a washing machine. The hybrid buses are a pleasant space to be in. Full electric is an upgrade on that experience.

Anyway the article is about the Czech made Hyundai bus, competition that is good for the sector.

I’m surprised we haven’t gone back to trolley buses, no need for a large battery then.

Trolley wire infrastructure is not a non-zero cost, and people hate the visual obstruction of trolley wire. https://humantransit.org/2012/03/dissent-of-the-week-trolley...

>It is range that is the problem.

I'm surprised... urban bus speeds in the US are below 15 mph, see below, so even a 180 mile range should give over 12 hrs operation.

Electric buses are very efficient on hills and in stop-start conditions, btw.

http://cityobservatory.org/urban-buses-are-slowing-down/

> Electric buses are very efficient on hills

Electric buses struggle on hills. LA Metro found their BYD electric buses would stall on hills. BYD's response was that "Metro drove BYD’s buses on hills that were too steep":

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-201...

Czech made what ? I did not see anything mentioning czech made.

Hyundai have a plant in the Czech Republic that produces about 1500 cars a day, but I also didn't see any indication that this bus would be produced there.

https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Motor_Manufacturing_Cz...

IIRC they were rejected in Hong Kong because the range was crap on the city’s hilly roads.

new gbus please!

Wow, this efficiency is only 70% more than model 3.

Why my comment is so downvoted? 370kw is an impressive value, my model 3 usually use ~220-270 to drive, but bus i so much bigger.

You’re conflating units, I think. The long range Model 3 has a 75 kWHr battery pack, and goes about 300 miles. That equates to about 250 wh/mi. This bus has a 374 kWHr battery pack, and goes 300 kilometers. That’s 180 miles, so about 2100 whr/mi. The “energy” tab of the Model 3 is displaying watt-hours.

I see, i misread article, was thinking that 374 is whr/mi

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