Hacker News Reader

Comment by wolfgke | Hacker News Reader

One problem with ProtonMail that is also relevant here is that ProtonMail does not allow to pay anonymously for the service (so that investigators are able to follow the money trail).

On the other hand (this is not supposed to be an advertisement or testimonial; I just state the fact), the German email provider Posteo that has some popularity among people who are concerned about privacy also allows anonymous payments via banknotes (cash) that is sent via mail (just put the letter into a postbox in a completely different city).

View on HN

You can pay with Bitcoin or cash apparently, though the latter will require contacting the ProtonMail team & arranging terms. https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/payment/

Okay, now try to.

You need an existing account, which you can't get if you:

- disable javascript

- don't verify with a phone number

- get stuck in captcha hell

verify with a phone number is notorious for blocking google voice number blocks and detecting devices that aren't pinging cell towers

> disable javascript

How do you want to decrypt your data client-side without running a software to do just that?

If I was that concerned, I'd get a burner phone with a prepaid SIM card and create my account from a public computer while covering my face.

Plus, as somebody else already said: having JS enabled seems pretty much mandatory if you want to be able to decrypt your emails client-side.

> If I was that concerned, I'd get a burner phone with a prepaid SIM card and create my account from a public computer while covering my face.

In the EU countries, it has (by law) become very hard to obtain an anonymous prepaid SIM card.

In _some_ EU countries. That's not true for them all.

On the other hand, germany is a bad place to have your servers.

At least the founders of Posteo show a strong willingness to proceed against attempts of intimidation which they face. See for example

> https://posteo.de/blog/bnetza-entscheidung-zu-posteo-kryptog...

> https://posteo.de/Dienstaufsichtsbeschwerde_Strafanzeige.pdf

(both in German).

And yet, Germany currently isn't even allowed to issue European Arrest Warrents, because our public prosecutors are not sufficiently independent from government influence.

https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/201...

Just want to clarify that German courts are allowed to issue European arrest warrants, just the prosecutors are not allowed to

English language version: https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/201...

Out of interest where would you suggest?

Depends who your adversary is.

I'm not sure, but I guess a relatively developed country without a big nosy state would do (or one that doesn't care about the Internet/speech censorship/spying on people). Other obvious places where you don't want to have your servers: Australia, USA, UK, Russia(duh), Turkey.

Case study: Vincent Canfield, of the half-joke email provider cock.li, moved his servers to Romania after them getting seized by German prosecutors.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/cock-li-server-s...

There's also Mailbox which offers the same kind of payment and is very similar to Posteo as far as I know.

I don't have ProtonMail, but do they not accept prepaid VISA / MASTERCARD debits?

I have not tested ProtonMail, but not likely. Most internet sites these days do not accept gift (prepaid) cards. I have found a couple VPS providers that do (or did) but the number of sites accepting gift cards is dwindling fast.

And would it be breaking any laws for a third party to pay for your ProtonMail account? Might be worth it to some people to pay 2x or even 10x the annual fee in cash to a third party to not have their financial fingerprints on the account.

You can buy and sell Protonmail accounts on Empire, Nightmare (formerly Dream) and other marketplaces

Reply on news.ycombinator.com