30 Years After Tiananmen, a Chinese Military Insider Warns: Never Forget | Hacker News Reader

30 Years After Tiananmen, a Chinese Military Insider Warns: Never Forget

nytimes.com

85 pointszonotope16 comments

If you would like a truly disturbing look into the massacre, read through the diplomatic cable sent home by the British ambassador - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UK_cable_on_Tiananmen_Square_... ;

> 5. FACT. ON ARRIVAL AT TIANANMEN TROOPS FROM SMR HAD SEPARATED STUDENTS AND RESIDENTS. STUDENTS UNDERSTOOD THEY WERE GIVEN ONE HOUR TO LEAVE SQUARE BUT AFTER FIVE MINUTES APCS ATTACKED. STUDENTS LINKED ARMS BUT WERE MOWN DOWN INCLUDING SOLDIERS. APCS THEN RAN OVER BODIES TIME AND TIME AGAIN TO MAKE QUOTE PIE UNQUOTE AND REMAINS COLLECTED BY BULLDOZER. REMAINS INCINERATED AND THEN HOSED DOWN DRAINS.

...APCs then ran over bodies time and time again to make "pie" and remains collected by bulldozer. Remains incinerated and then hosed down drains.

I can never get this image out of my mind. A global future led by the same people involved in continuing such atrocities is terrifying.

I always find it amazing how easy it is for governments to find people who will commit atrocities for them. This should be a warning for us thinking “I would never do this”. Most of us probably would go along

I don't. As sickening and distressing the words are above you, I don't. Most people want to be safe and when the absolute worst is happening, they want to survive it. I know you are insinuating/thinking the same, but I want to be explicit.

Can you, in all honesty, blame them?

I think the second point of the cable helps explain this:

> 60 PERCENT ILLITERATE AND ARE CALLED PRIMITIVES... THEY WERE KEPT WITHOUT NEWS FOR TEN DAYS AND TOLD THEY WERE TO TAKE PART IN AN EXERCISE. A TV FILM WOULD BE MADE OF THE EXERCISE WHICH PLEASED THEM.

Don't be arrogant. A lot of "smart" people would go along as well.

My point was that they isolated a group of people, who had never been educated, from the outside world then bribed them with something they wanted. That is not arrogant.

You do not live in China so it's probably hard for you to understand how our government controls the flow of information and then uses the ignorance to is advantage.

My point was that a lot of people decide to play along with this stuff. This is not limited to uneducated people.

Your assumption is that I am using "uneducated" as an insult rather than a fact.

That's how it's usually used.

At the risk of bringing out the worst in all of us, I'd like to point out that this is as natural as the human tendency to divide into in groups and out groups. The next "logical" step always seems to be a demand to punish the out-group.

It reminds me of the now famous quote by a person who later said about their vote to a certain controversial individual; “I voted for him, and he’s the one who’s doing this, [note: government shutdown] I thought he was going to do good things. He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.”

People sometimes foist leaders into power to hurt others in a bid to help themselves. But they often forget that the boundaries for in groups and out groups are fluid. And that those who are in can also be out and the new ones who are in can do the same to those who are out.

Extremely moving piece about a very eloquent woman, not ashamed to admit that I had teared up by the end.

It really makes you realize what's at stake in politics, whether it's in China, the US, or anywhere else. This is a country that's gone on to grow into a top 3 (2?) powerhouse in the world, and then to read that final statement...

> “All this is built on sand. There’s no solid foundation,” she said. “If you can deny that people were killed, any lie is possible.”

It's true. We don't think about it day to day, but she's absolutely right. And we have to be vigilant as citizens about the truth.

The truth behind Tiananmen Sq is one that tugs at my heart-strings. I still somehow refuse to believe it's true that soldiers could fire at the people. The tank-man video is the most humane display of the heroism, not just of the tank-man, but also the man inside the tank, who refused to mow his compatriot. I want to make it my life' work to uncover what is true. At least preserve enough evidence, so that future generations can study this and decide for themselves.

I sometimes wondered why Chinese government is SO wickedly scared of any mention/signaling of the Tiananmen Square protests/massacre.

Reading the diplomatic cable by the British ambassador, it makes sense to me now.

A truly tragic moment in history

Never forget May 35th.

It's true that hundreds of people died during the crackdown of the riot. However the event is sensationalized and exaggerated to a point that people question the intent of bringing it up again and again.

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/89BEIJING18828_a.html ALTHOUGH GUNFIRE COULD BE HEARD, GALLO SAID THAT APART FROM SOME BEATING OF STUDENTS, THERE WAS NO MASS FIRING INTO THE CROWD OF STUDENTS AT THE MONUMENT. WHEN POLOFF MENTIONED SOME REPORTEDLY EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS OF MASSACRES AT THE MONUMENT WITH AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, GALLO SAID THAT THERE WAS NO SUCH SLAUGHTER.

https://youtu.be/GRb4VY2dU4c The actual video footage of the famous photo of tank running over man.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com