25% of Americans say they worry about money ‘all the time’
cnbc.com
cnbc.com
Using a 3.5% safe withdrawal rate, I've recently crossed the threshold where I could retire indefinitely at my current spending rate. Each day I continue working is now essentially only so I can spend more on a more luxurious lifestyle in the future. I'm fairly frugal, and it's been changing my perspective on work a bit. The first place I've been loosening up on is food.
Or, you know, maybe allowing more philanthropy and leaving a charitable legacy for the future. There are many ways to utilize our high-tech ability to generate large incomes that don't involve spending every dime on ourselves.
The crossover point where I feel like I will actively enjoy giving to charity is once my portfolio reaches $2MM ($70k annual spend).
Reasonable insurance means anticipated medical expenses are limited to out-of-pocket maximums per year, which is reasonable.
Wow that is optimistic.
Edit: Yes I know US markets have done very well the last 100 years, but they were unusual circumstances. The next 100 are very likely to be different. Take a look Germany/France/Italy/UK/Japan, for more normal returns. Yes they are less capitalist - but US could be too given the way the main US parties are going.
Its just scary whenever I see people extrapolate recent returns. FIRE guys are generally dreaming -esp if they have no children.
Actually this doesn't really matter if you live for 20-40 years after you retire.
edit: (But also, you should probably not own a ton of stocks near your retirement date)
With that said, while I make sure to have contingencies in the case I do end up living for longer than expected, given the average lifespan of an American and the a mid 60s retirement age, "living for 20-40 years after you retire" is not something everyone can count on.
The other poster has a valid point: as you get close to retirement you shouldn't own too much stocks, but then if the market crash around the time you start seriously converting to bonds and stuff, you have to delay that plan and manage things a lot more closely.
Even if I could shorten the time-to-full-retirement by a couple years, it wouldn't do me any particular good. I generally like my field and my job. I'm tied to the area (can't freely travel 25+% of the time) by virtue of having kids in 2nd and 4th grade. So, there's no mathematical/financial reason to pursue a more Spartan early-retirement-extreme or MMM-approved spending plan.
With that in mind, I find I'm able to enjoy the luxury expenditures, because they aren't taking us off our plan. We travel for a week each winter to "someplace warm". We travel to visit family quite freely. The kids engage in whatever activities they want to try, without worrying about the costs. We own an airplane. We have cleaners that come by every other week. We buy quality food. We give to charities that are meaningful to us (many with money, some with significant amounts of our time as well).
On the other hand, we cut our own grass, do 95+% of our own car maintenance, almost all of our home maintenance, and cook most of our own meals, because we value the savings and example it sets for our kids (especially around charity and talking through the value of money).
That escalated quickly!
I applaud your good fiscal management. At the same time, I hope you give serious consideration to treating home-brewed automobile maintenance differently than airplane maintenance.
Or is it a recreational airplane and all my questions are missing the mark?
When you compare against super-discount airline airfares for 4 tickets, "our" airplane is slightly cheaper to decide to take it instead of airlines. There are many days when weather-wise it's safe to go by airline jet but unsafe by small airplane. (Of course, there's a massive overhead to that calculus, but day-of-travel is slightly cheaper.) Flight planning and pilot training is time-consuming, so it only makes sense if you already wanted to do that as your hobby. Absent a real desire to do it, it's not worth the time, cost, and risk. Take the airlines or drive.
Do you know much about the environmental/carbon cost comparison between your plane and an airline jet?
I am guessing the smaller plane is better, consumption-wise with gas used per person, than an airline jet?
For the trip to my parents, I have a choice to fly commercial into Myrtle Beach, to fly private into the small airport near their house, or to drive. I'll consider CO2e and a 4-passenger load.
Commercial: 760nm->1300km(693 flight plan plus 10% uplift for ground ops and APU) => 328kg CO2e + 180 miles of airport transport by car => 32 kg CO2e => 360 kg total
Private car: 30mpg, 4 pax, 844 sm => 149 kg CO2e (burning ~28 gallons). (Also is a 14 hour drive, so miserable.)
Our airplane: 616nm => 1200km (including a 5% uplift for climb and ground ops), at 11nmpg, burning about 60 gallons, which matches our actual historical fuel purchases quite closely. Assuming same CO2e/gal as a car => 320 kg CO2e Add 100 miles or so of ground transport and that puts you around 18 kg for the cars and 338 kg total. (Distance is less because we go to an airport that is closer to my home airport and much closer to my parents' house.)
So it looks remarkably close on the airplane side, if the commercial airline figures below are accurate. I'm quite confident the car and our airplane figures are ballpark close enough (absent a math error). That also requires taking a direct flight, which is not always possible (the direct is seasonal). The emissions on connecting flights are much worse than the above with twice as many ground operations. (Jets can burn ~1/3 of their cruise fuel flow while idling on the ground. Pistons are more like 1/6th.)
Refs: http://lipasto.vtt.fi/yksikkopaastot/henkiloliikennee/ilmali... http://lipasto.vtt.fi/yksikkopaastot/henkiloliikennee/tielii...
I'm guessing you're not married, then...?
After food, spending money on communal activities is a good place to open your wallet. Being around good friends will really make you feel good about life.
I’m reluctant to suggest money on physical goods. But I’ve noticed for certain things, quality really makes a difference. I bought an REI backpack 10 years ago that to this day brings me joy just looking at it. Also a good bed made a ton of difference 5 years ago.
Word of warning though. It is really hard to go back once you raise the bar in a given area. I am currently hemorrhaging money due to children expenses, and going back to only drinking tap water sort of feels bad in ways that are hard to describe.
Also keep in mind that significant others can really change your spending habits. Most of my fire fantasies flew out the window when I moved in with my girlfriend. And again once I got married. And again once I had kids...
In my case, it will soon be 12 kids, and I hadn't personally purchased bottled water for normal home use.
The water situation is weird. I could never bring myself to buy bottled water, since it feels wasteful, but I got used to it being provided at work. This got me viewing the tap water as contaminated, but not having any alternate water at home. I end up dehydrated. I also drink lots of juice and milk, which isn't saving any money but it somehow feels less wasteful.
To be entirely honest, I don't really do this. I guy goods and services if they are fun or stimulating, make my life easier for me, or solve a problem that I have.
I can't remember ever buying something because it was luxurious, except for the occasional meal. If I did, then I think I'd feel like I was wasting my money.
I don't live frugally, but cheaply, and every single penny I spend on things that aren't "necessary" causes me mental anguish. Any purchase above 10-50 dollars requires actual effort to "psych" myself up for. I am underpaid for my industry and position. I have a years salary in the bank.
This is what poverty does to a human. The destruction caused by such anxiety cannot truly be fixed. Every day we don't strive to help our fellow man is a day we condemn thousands to a life of anguish.
Remember that next time you vote
Like part of the problem.
I think this means you worry about money.
Wait until your kids get close to graduating high school... my oldest will be starting college in about 3 years and even though I've been saving since he was born, I still have no idea how I'm going to pay for all of it.
My parents never paid for my college and I Graduated debt free with an engineering degree.
Maybe having to pay for college will cause them to take internships to pay for college.
I was in the middle - my parents helped some - probably to the tune of maybe 20% total of my expenses. I worked multiple jobs, got some small scholarships, took out some loans. A mixed bag, but there was no question in my mind that somehow my parents "owed" me that luxury. they had 2 other kids to deal with as well after me.
I think maybe their kids should consider "not going to college" but that's a hard idea to sell, since it does have a measurable impact on the work and income a person can get.
My total bill was 30,000 USD for my bachelor's degree.
Its definitely in a better place than it used to be, but the bubble popping is in the back of my mind too. Many of us have gone through the times when getting a tech job was insanely hard as everyone post crash was fighting for the same handful of open positions.
I remember the time when I quit my position as a software developer to go work as a sales clerk because that paid so much more than the near minimum wage I was making. We live in beautiful times and absolutely shouldn't take it for granted... (though working multiple jobs is probably a bit much, take care of your mental health)
Headline: 25% of Americans say they worry about money 'all the time'
Body: 25% worry 'all' or 'most' of the time that their household income won’t be enough to cover their expenses.
Link to 25% worry 'all or 'most' of the time: Leads to unrelated article about New Yorkers.
Underlying poll: "11% of Americans say they worry about money 'all the time.'
"Overall, just 25% of Americans say they worry "all" or "most" of the time that their family income will not meet their expenses; 37% worry "some of the time"; and 37% "almost never" worry."
The source of this easily discoverable in the PDF Gallup links to on their article.
https://news.gallup.com/file/poll/249191/190429PersonalFinan...
They don't seem to do investigations, but rather reporting stories with buzz producing titles.
I'm surprised they are considered mainstream media. Is that only because they have a TV channel?
https://www.people-press.org/2010/12/02/despite-years-of-ter...
This is nonsense. Financial education (from a young age) should be mandatory. The number of people in dire financial straights should be miniscule, if everybody acted with good financial sense consistently.
This is wholly a man-made crisis. Participation is completely voluntary.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nearly-40-of-americans-cant-cov...
"With cash or money currently in checking/savings" is at 45% but the next highest percent is "With a credit card, paid off in full at the next statement" at 33%. There's plenty of reason to use a credit card for a $400 expense even if you have $30,000 sitting in your checking account, so those who expect to pay off their credit card in full when the balance closes should be "counted" as having the emergency covered.
When I was younger I had a lot of friends that were making minimum wage as cooks or whatever in Boston. They (and me) had plenty of money to spend on alcohol, weed, bars, pizza, etc. If anyone had wanted to, they could have made sacrifices and put away over $250 a month.
Of course, things are a little different when you have a family, but then again, in my opinion, you shouldn't have a family until you're financially stable.
I know live in Tanzania and the situation is so different that I find it ridiculous when people in America complain about income inequality or the lack of a "living wage."
Even the poorest employed people in America are far better off than most of the people here, and if you told them about how the so called "poorest" in America live, they would literally kill to switch places with them.
Any more insights? What's your take on depression? "Just get over it"?
Take one single second to consider that maybe virtue alone isn't enough. The world has changed since you were young. Take some time to learn about it, and develop some empathy.
You either accept that people choose to live outside their means, or people have no control over their bodies and therefore should not be punished for crimes.
I don't expect people to share ideas about this topic, it's silly too. Most of us want to help people, but many hn voters would rather by publically empathetic than discuss.
I reckon there is a middle ground, but what do I know.
On introspection, I realized that I was worried about money because the system is set up as a casino. You just HAVE to gamble to save the fruits of your labor. Every investment is more speculation than production. In addition, inflation is way way over what the fed thinks it is.
To add salt to the wound, I'm actually capable of understanding these problems mathematically. My friends/relatives who don't understand all this are blissfully unaware. They live out their lives until a crisis hits and need to beg for money.
I sometimes wonder if I should really take the blue pill and live with the mantra ignorance is bliss.
Banking cash feels irresponsible.
But they aren't talking about us who are aware of the looming USD crisis and invest money. They are talking about those who don't invest.
Is a savings/checking account a "gamble"? Is a money market?