VW to Reshuffle $56B Battery Push as Samsung Deal at Risk | Hacker News Reader

VW to Reshuffle $56B Battery Push as Samsung Deal at Risk

bloomberg.com

26 pointsokket23 comments

> Tesla, beset by concerns over demand and its ability to make a profit, last month accused its battery supplier, Panasonic Corp., of being the culprit for tepid production rates of the affordable Model 3.

I'm confused. I thought the Gigafactory was supposed to be building batteries, as in building cells, not just building battery packs from third party cells.

The gigafactory is building the batteries and cells and all, it's just that the gigafactory != Tesla. Panasonic is their partner and is responsible for a significant chunk of the space and equipment for manufacturing cells.

https://electrek.co/2016/07/29/tesla-gigafactory-panasonics-...

So what is Tesla's contribution to this? They always make it seem like its their baby.

In 2014, Tesla wrote to its investors [0]:

"...According to the agreement, Tesla will prepare, provide and manage the land, buildings and utilities. Panasonic will manufacture and supply cylindrical lithium-ion cells and invest in the associated equipment, machinery, and other manufacturing tools based on their mutual approval. A network of supplier partners is planned to produce the required precursor materials. Tesla will take the cells and other components to assemble battery modules and packs. To meet the projected demand for cells, Tesla will continue to purchase battery cells produced in Panasonic's factories in Japan. Tesla and Panasonic will continue to discuss the details of implementation including sales, operations and investment."

From a quick read of this press release and a few others, it seems that Panasonic is doing the real heavy lifting from a manufacturing perspective.

[0] https://ir.teslamotors.com/news-releases/news-release-detail...

The chemistry of the battery. They just don't package them

Panasonic is the bottlers as Tesla is to corporate Coca Cola. Is Coca Cola any less real because someone else is churning out the soda?

So we have an assembly line and the people contributing the IP for running the 'front half' of the line can't get the production rates up enough to saturate the 'back half' of the assembly line, which means the production rate is lower than expected?

Is this putting the ID.3 at risk?

aww, you really expected VW to be serious about electric cars?

Yes. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-12/vw-s-audi...

The real news here is that the EV revolution is finally starting to really take off. The auto companies that are not already pushing hard on developing EV's are going to be left behind and go bankrupt. Of the incumbent auto makers, VW is the most committed.

I really don't buy it. In the US, the best-selling vehicles are SUVs and trucks, and it has only gotten more pronounced now that the US has become a net oil exporter and the spectre of $5/gallon gas that we approached 15 years ago is just a bad memory.

Ford alone sells more F150s in a single year than all the EVs all together.

You picked a good example with Ford that illustrates the parent's point, probably in a way not intended by the parent post. Soon Ford will no longer be an automobile manufacturer - they will only be building trucks and SUVs (aka fake trucks) with the lone exception of the Mustang.

Ref: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-...

Aren't SUVs and truck protected from foreign competition by the chicken tax?

VW is also building more SUVs. They have like 4 models not counting Audi, Skoda and Seat.

The chicken truck tax is pretty easy to avoid, you just need to bolt a few final parts onto the vehicle in America and call it final assembly.

This is why the Subaru Brat, a light truck by all definitions, came with some very dangerous plastic seats in the back, to dodge the chicken tax. The expectation was that the user would remove them themselves to dodge the 25% tariff.

I didn’t know what the chicken tax was. Here’s a write up on it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-...

In short: the EU wanted to stop a flood of US chickens in the 60s so they imposed a tariffs. The US then retaliated by tariffing trucks, mainly from VW.

But what is a truck? Is a minivan a truck? I didn’t know this but the Ford Transit is built in Spain and comes to the US with rear seats and also glass windows in the rear. At customs the seats are ripped out and the rear windows are plated over now making it a popular delivery truck, this voiding $250M in taxes.

Are trucks best selling because people need vehicles to move big or heavy things and when all you are moving is people and luggage you just get an uber, bus, train, plane?

I am a remote worker and have an f150 I drive about once a week.

No, it's because they're roomy inside, safer to drive, and when you needthe storage it's there.

No, it’s because of the perception of utility and self-sufficiency. Trucks are very similar to sports cars, they’re sold on the perception of capability and the way the driver perceives themself, not around how the vehicle will actually be used.

Also, sedans are safer than trucks, by a lot. Not only are trucks more prone to rollovers, but IIHS rates a lot of high selling trucks as having a “poor” structure likely to suffer incursions during a collision. Only 1 truck in 2019 got a IIHS top safety pick, a few minivans got honored, and well over a dozen sedans got picked.

You should see how much crap Americans like to bring with them to kids baseball games, camping, etc. Sedans can't hold it all and vans are not cool. SUVs and trucks fit the American lifestyle.

That's more an argument to stop buying so much crap than it is an argument to buy a wasteful vehicle.

So how did Americans 10+ years ago manage to live with sedans? I remember my mom and us four children all sitting in a Jetta, and later a Passat (slightly roomier). Was it a little cramped? Perhaps. Would it have been worth spending an extra $10,000 and more on gas to have a larger vehicle like many Americans are doing today and end up driving alone anyway? Nope.

Are you actually serious about that or did you miss all the investment that VW does into electric cars?

I think this tone is inappropriate for HN

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