World's rivers 'awash with dangerous levels of antibiotics' | Hacker News Reader

World's rivers 'awash with dangerous levels of antibiotics'

theguardian.com

77 pointspunnerud29 comments

Antibiotic resistance is the medical equivalent of Climate Change. It hasn't gotten anywhere as much exposure as climate change though, and even with the amount climate change has gotten, it still isn't seeing enough action.

I just wish I could be more optimistic about the whole situation, but decades of advertising in cleanliness conflating clean with germ free is coming back to bite us. Both from antibacterial agents for infections, and more generally for surface cleaners.

Apparently factory farms (i.e. chickens, pigs, turkey, cows, etc.) are the largest abusers of antibiotics.

> Of all antibiotics sold in the United States, approximately 80% are sold for use in animal agriculture; about 70% of these are “medically important” (i.e., from classes important to human medicine). Antibiotics are administered to animals in feed to marginally improve growth rates and to prevent infections ...

Antibiotics Overuse in Animal Agriculture: A Call to Action for Health Care Providers https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4638249/

Factory farms are also on the lists of biggest sometimes overlooked contributors to climate change. It's feels a lot like there needs to be major agriculture reform.

1. Don't buy meat from anywhere where Antibiotics is used in healthy animals.

2. Vote to ban the practice.

There is no step 3.

3. Lobby for an effective ban in countries like China, where antibiotics are widely used (especially in aquaculture) and the law as written isn’t always enforced.

This is one of those border-hopping problems which, like CFC emissions, may require external pressure for some countries to address.

While I'm not suggesting not lobbying for an effective ban in China, this comment seems to make China out to be almost a sole offender. Antibiotics are widely used in most countries, particularly in the US, and even in Europe (despite the EU ban on usage for growth purposes). Their usage is increasing at scary rates in China, Brazil, etc., but that doesn't discount that it's still very high in western nations.

Agreed. This has improved recently in the EU: the EU law was given significantly more teeth less than a year ago (should be in force within 2 years now). Let's hope the EU will actually enforce it. The new law also bans imports to the EU, so if it's followed it's almost exactly what I'm asking for (ban of routine use + import ban). https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/25/european-par... (Law voted through 2018, with 3 years introduction. Hopefully use will decline before that to comply before it becomes law)

This needs to happen in the US as well. China is a big exporter so even if there is no domestic pressure, import bans should make a difference.

Yes, totally agreed. China was just top-of-mind after the recent news about CFC-detecting satellites, the publication of their results, and the authorities’ subsequent remedial action.

Who exactly is buying meat from China also? From my time in Vietnam the locals I knew shunned Chinese meat imports and recommended not buying it even though it was slightly cheaper, many simply don't trust it and there was a few scandals.

Easier: 1. Don't buy meat.

That's a quitter's attitude.

See here is my conundrum. I have some antibiotics that my son didn't use. I need to dispose of it. The CDC actually suggests flushing it down the toilet, because it's better in the water supply than being accidentally ingested. This feels wrong to me, but the CDC says to do it...

You shouldn't be in that situation. Antibiotics are not supposed to be discretionary medicine that you take until you feel better. Your son should have finished the prescription. Stopping antibiotics prematurely is one of the ways that antibiotic resistant bacteria develop.

Source: I prescribe antibiotics

This situation is legitimate.

Example: I prescribe you 5 days of trimethoprim for a urinary tract infection. It's 1 tablet per day. It comes in a box of 7. You can do the maths.

Edit: and as others have suggested, if patients ask me what to do with extra meds of any kind I suggest they take them to the pharmacy.

He had an allergic reaction and we had to switch drugs after one dose. But thanks for the unsolicited advice. ;)

Why not bring it back to pharmacy? In UK and other EU countries pharmacies collect and have ways to dispose of medical waste. Same goes for the shops that sell alkaline batteries - they have special waste bins for disposing of used ones.

Mixing it up with excess bleach will certainly eat up all the active ingredients within a few hours. Best done outside in fresh air

I can't tell if you're serious, but it almost sounds plausible.

I'm completely serious, my undergrad degree is in chem and my grad degree is pharmacology. Bleach effectively "burns up" most organic chemicals. Bleach is so reactive that, while it's "dangerous", it's not a persistent environmental toxin. The thing about ventilation is re:reactions with amines (most drugs have nitrogen's) that make tear gas-like stuff. Whomever disposes of antibiotics is doing this, or chucking it in an incinerator. Burning it is better, but e.g. an oil drum filled with garbage and some gasoline will vaporize a fair bit of stuff and complete combustion is not nearly convenient as stuff you can buy at the grocery store

The antibiotic series I took this winter all had big warnings (presumably from more recent CDC guidance?) that extras should be disposed of in their sealed containers in refuse/trash and never flushed or poured down a drain.

In the UK one is requested to return unused medicine to the pharmacist.

I’ve never actually done this

In my experience this is trivial to do; just hand it in at the pharmacy counter. Never had an issue with it.

I am suspicious of hype/scare articles like this one...smells too much like manufacturing consent for more laws to restrict the ability of americans to go around the laws enacted by the healthcare cartel via congress...all in order to increase wall st profits...

yes, I am aware of the dangers of antibiotics no longer being effective because of overuse etc...but I don't know how much of that is media propaganda being paid for by some medical cartel...most everything in america/the West is shaped by and influenced by corporate propaganda put out by the media...this article and similar articles smell like media propaganda that is designed to scare people and manufacture consent for yet more laws from congress to control the ability of the people to go out and buy some drugs to help them live longer...

I don't trust the media because it is bought and paid for with corporate advertising dollars...I don't trust the medical cartel because they increase profits by restricting our freedom to buy medical care and buy drugs...the medical cartel and media and congress effectively conspire to extort americans for healthcare and drugs that help them live longer...that is how they get rich and we get poorer...

I don't trust congress because they are bought and paid for by the corporations and they dance to the tune of the corporate media...

I will say what nobody else on this thread dares to say--that this article is quite possibly propaganda bought by the medical cartel...and that this article is one of many such articles...

You are, of course, free to live your life this way, but please don't consider this to be reasonable or rational. This isn't critical thinking; it's pure pessimism.

These are extremely complicated subjects. It's even more complicated because of the extreme amount of BS in them. But a careful, fact based approach will lead to a productive understanding of these issues.

I have personally met someone who nearly died and is going to be in a wheel chair for the rest of his life because he stepped on a lego and the wound was infected by MRSA. The infection spread into his bones and blood supply before they managed to stop it.

That’s the future that we’re headed for if we don’t get it under control — a world where you can die from accidentally stepping on a toy.

and with anecdotes like that one, the corporations can lock down all medications and supplements tighter than a drum...you carrying aspirin on you without a prescription? That's a felony, mandatory life sentence...i am too old to be fooled by these media hypestorms...seen it too many times...

Just consider this. Why would the drug companies have any interest in a law that severely restricts what they can and can't sell to people?

The Guardian is one of the few places I still trust. Their funding model insulates them more than other organizations (I’m not saying they’re perfect).

We should be friends. Hit me up, homie: https://philosopher.life/.

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