Comment by woadwarrior01 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by woadwarrior01 | Hacker News Reader

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> So, no - you don't need to pay for the convenience of Sony's app by allowing Location access as it's not required but for a singular feature that is fundamentally based around setting profiles based on your location.

I reinstalled the app to see if I was misremembering it. The app requests for always on location information upon installation and pairing with the headphones. The garden path in the UX of the app is to allow location access. If the user chooses to not allow location access by tapping the tiny "Later" button, the main screen prominently features a Switch control (which is off) for Adaptive Sound Control, tempting the user to toggle it on, which requests always on location access. Given all of this, it's very difficult to interpret this "feature" in a favorable light.

Fortunately, the app's privacy policy[1] does not seem to mention anything about them collecting location information (but they do claim to collect "country or region"). On the other hand, the manual for the app[2] also has no mention of it requesting always on location access either, which doesn't inspire much confidence. Not to mention the 27 month data retention policy and the policy of sharing with their "affiliates".

After having read the privacy policy, I'm glad I chose not to use the app and will continue to do so.

[1]: https://musiccenter-cdn.meta.ndmdhs.com/headphones/pp/201903... [2]: https://helpguide.sony.net/mdr/hpc/v1/en/index.html

> Given all of this, it's very difficult to interpret this "feature" in a favorable light.

What would you rather they do? They ask for permission for a specific feature and when denied, the feature is turned off. When you try to turn on the feature, it requests access for that feature. It sounds like it works exactly as it should.

Agreed. I feel like the argument against in this thread is a poor strawman. I've never allowed any permissions for this app and have yet to have any functionality diminished. The app doesn't require any registration (which is not oft the case these days) and as others have pointed out most all functionality can be had via direct controls on the headphones. You can get away with not using this app for most everything except firmware updates and location specific features.

> What would you rather they do?

I would rather that they document why they need background location access and not try to hoodwink their users into granting them carte blanche access to the users' location data. There's a fairly established pattern in mobile apps where they show a screen informing the user of the reasons why an app needs location access before requesting it from the OS. And that isn't the case with the app in question. Nowhere in their product documentation (for both the app and the headphones) do they mention that their product needs background location access.

Also, let's not forget the context of the post here. The Bose Connect app (at least on iOS) does not demand access to the user's location. They got sued for lesser privacy violation (in my subjective opinion) and rightly so. Any app demanding background location access, especially an app for a pair of headphones is a serious concern, IMO.

The other commenter in this thread seems to be insinuating that I have a bias against Sony. But that's certainly not the case. I've spent a lot of money on Sony's mirrorless cameras and lenses and continue to do so. Sony undoubtedly makes great hardware, but on the other hand, privacy is also very important to many of us. One could argue that privacy is far more important than the fancy hardware.

Finally, coming back to the "feature" in question, "Adaptive Sound Control". The feature seems to be built around classifying whether the wearer of the headphones is standing still, or walking or running or using a mode of transport and applying the user selected profile based on the activity. Couldn't this be implemented in a much more efficient manner in hardware with an accelerometer in the headphones? I understand that this would mean a slightly reduced battery life on the headphones for people using the feature, but would be a better trade off, IMO. And yes, decisions like this are a product of a company's design philosophy.

> Also, let's not forget the context of the post here. The Bose Connect app (at least on iOS) does not demand access to the user's location. They got sued for lesser privacy violation (in my subjective opinion) and rightly so. Any app demanding background location access, especially an app for a pair of headphones is a serious concern, IMO.

I'm not sure you are understanding the feature. It allows you to set profiles for your location automatically. Like if you're at home maybe you care more about ambient noise while cancelling is enabled. Maybe while you're at work you want to dial it down. Yes, you can switch between profiles in other ways but this allows your phone to do it automatically for you. The app does not "demand" access, I wish you'd stop saying this because it is not true. Again if you do not use the feature it, literally, will never ask you for location permissions until you try to turn the feature that requires it on.

> Finally, coming back to the "feature" in question, "Adaptive Sound Control". The feature seems to be built around classifying whether the wearer of the headphones is standing still, or walking or running or using a mode of transport and applying the user selected profile based on the activity. Couldn't this be implemented in a much more efficient manner in hardware with an accelerometer in the headphones? I understand that this would mean a slightly reduced battery life on the headphones for people using the feature, but would be a better trade off, IMO. And yes, decisions like this are a product of a company's design philosophy.

You're wrong here. Maybe try to understand the feature before making a bunch of incorrect assumptions. You think an accelerometer is going to be able to differentiate your work and home location? No. It's a pair of headphones and a feature that has been blown way out of proportion with your strawman. Finally, a feature does not a company's design philosophy make as, again, you assume here with absolutely zero basis to back up your argument. Not only have you failed to show how this feature is ill used by Sony you've also failed to comprehend what it actually is or how it's used.

> You're wrong here. Maybe try to understand the feature before making a bunch of incorrect assumptions. You think an accelerometer is going to be able to differentiate your work and home location? No. It's a pair of headphones and a feature that has been blown way out of proportion with your strawman. Finally, a feature does not a company's design philosophy make as, again, you assume here with absolutely zero basis to back up your argument. Not only have you failed to show how this feature is ill used by Sony you've also failed to comprehend what it actually is or how it's used.

Perhaps I am. This seems like right occasion to pull out my trusty old iPhone 6S Plus from my drawer that I keep around for testing dodgy apps.

I installed the latest version of the "Sony | Headphones Connect" from the iOS App Store on the aforementioned phone with a throwaway app store account. Also, I allowed it the full location access that it had been asking for, to enable the "feature". I took screenshots of every screen along the way. I've uploaded them here[1]. You'll only need to see the first 4 screenshots there to see what I'm talking about. The screenshots are in reverse chronological order and have been cropped to remove the iOS status bar.

As evidenced by the screenshots, the only modes the "Ambient Sound Control" "feature" is able to differentiate in between are "Transport", "Running", "Walking", and "Staying". Now, it's amply evident that you're either lying or using some special version of the app that isn't publicly available and allows your pair of headphones to distinguish between when you're using them at home and when you're using them at work.

Also, to cite from another contradictory comment[2] of yours on this thread: > I've never allowed any permissions for this app and have yet to have any functionality diminished.

If you've never allowed permissions for this app, then how did jump to the false conclusion about the app being able to differentiate your work and home location? It looks like the only way to ascertain that would be to allow location access to the app.

The certitude with which you state your opinions on this thread and the extent to which you're willing to ignore the facts, makes me suspicious of your motives here.

[1]: https://imgur.com/a/dtUTYZU

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20016409

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