No, Night Owls Aren’t Doomed to Die Early | Hacker News Reader

No, Night Owls Aren’t Doomed to Die Early

nytimes.com

83 pointsbrandonhall49 comments

This is about a study published last year in April in Chronobiology International: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07420528.2018.1...

News sites have picked it up and produced headlines on the same study with the complete opposite sentiment: https://news.sky.com/story/nocturnal-night-owls-risk-early-d...

My understanding is from the article that night owls are not doomed to die early in the literal sense, but not being able to work, eat and exercise in the "proper time" still makes them susceptible to diabetes, neurological, respiratory and cardiovascular problems, etc.

So yeah, still doomed.

The book, “Why We Sleep” covers this and many other sleep topics at length and in far more depth. It’s fascinating.

It truly is fascinating. I'd recommend anyone to read this, as he also talks about the evolutionary benefits of morning larks versus night owls. It was, perhaps, the most influential book I read last year.

How did it influence you? What are the changes it prompted you to make?

I've started turning 'Do Not Disturb' mode on my phone much earlier, and plugging it into charge (facedown) at the same time. Even with a blue light filter, there was still a lot of exposure that would keep me awake. I try (and often fail, admittedly) to shut off my computer earlier too, but I use f.lux which helps mitigate it some.

I also have changed out my light bulbs and use a lamp at night that doesn't emit as much blue light; I'm even considering getting some of the color changing ones and programming them to change for me throughout the day (as well as come on and turn off at a set time, which could be great).

On top of all that, I try to follow a consistent schedule. It's difficult, but if I've been on it a few days, I notice it when I'm off and am quite miserable.

I still could do more, especially wearing a sleep mask. I've noticed that when I sleep in windowless rooms, I sleep a lot better; the same is true with cool rooms (unfortunately, one of my roommates is always cold and refuses to believe we sleep better cool so our house rarely gets below 72 during the summer, and only that cool at night because I turn it down after he goes to sleep).

But, really, mitigating blue light and understanding the importance of sleep are the two main things it's taught me.

Thanks for the response. I just have one remark:

> one of my roommates is always cold and refuses to believe we sleep better cool

I don't think this is universal, although it is often stated as such. I too sleep best when the room is between 24 and 25 degrees Celsius (during the winter, too).

You know, back in Mexico, we had school in two shifts, rite? It was a morning shift & afternoon shift. It was a way to fix the problem of "too many students and not enough time".

I always took the afternoons. It was great. Life made sense. I wonder if we can ever pressure the bosses to make overlapping shifts? Or is that even possible? A 6-hour workday sounds like an opium dream to me at this point in our timeline.

Since I'm a freelancer I sleep from 2/3 - 11/12 without a alarm.

Feel much better now.

We don't have set hours at our office and about half the people come in early around 8-10am and the other half come in around 1pm. There's enough overlap for afternoon meetings and plenty of time when the office is quieter because half as many people are there.

Can you please clarify? Is it like that in your company or is it the case with all of your country?

My company...

> It wasn’t the conclusion of the study, or its researchers. But in the bombastic world of science reporting, it didn’t really matter.

This right here is the crux of the whole thing. Science reporting biases towards clicks and shares instead of accuracy. There is still some good science reporting out there, but it doesn't sell like the sensational headlines.

Those who are forced to wake up too early, die early.

Those who sleep enough have no extra risk.

Alternative hypothsis: People who stay up late have a higher probability of going out, enjoy more occasional drinks, are more probable to smoking or take recreational drugs and have more sexual partners and generally enjoy more riskier lifestyle choices, all of which contributes to the statistics showing a shorter life expectation.

And of course all of this sounds substantially more fun.

Which may also lead to a greater since of community and reduced loneliness which contributes to longer life.

Because no one ever found a sense of community from their morning bike ride or running group or being monogamous and having a family... The idea that sexual promiscuity and doing drugs and drinking to lower social inhibition are what creates a sense of community is pretty misguided.

Not what Im advocating. just providing a counterpoint to the argument that the only outcome to staying up late is that you are making choices that shorten life. Staying out late certainly can contribute to the OPs theory, but that isn't the only outcome. Reduction of stress, finding a community/partner/etc is definitely something that hanging out late can provide. the time of day you feel most awake doesn't mean your default is self destruction.

I suspect the issue isn't the time you wake up, it's if you're artificially waking up.

(Ex: if you stay up late on weekends then struggle on Monday due to lack of sleep vs simply choosing to wake at 10am daily because you have a flexible work schedule and sometimes like to go to events that are in the evening.)

I don't think it's when you sleep, but how much sleep you get on a consistent basis.

I really dislike this kind of clickbait. I've never heard anything of owls dying and now I have this condescending headline talking down to me.

"...warned against drawing conclusions based on simple correlation."

Can we just do this, in general?

Yeah like sugar vs fat studies, this is profound, not.

So the choice is enjoy life or drag it out when you're falling apart.

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