Hacker News Reader

Comment by packetslave | Hacker News Reader

Do you legitimately think the world would be a better place if gmail, youtube, flickr, reddit, EVERY search engine, and basically every web content site disappeared?

Because that's what happens if you don't have web advertising. Free things disappear without revenue.

Or maybe you'd prefer to go back to the days of randomly-targeted or "PUNCH THE MONKEY" ads. Because THAT'S what happens without ad auctions and targeting.

The reality is: advertisers and ad-supported sites WANT to show you a relevant ad that you're likely to click (modulo obvious bad actors). That's how they get paid. Anything else is, by definition, "[wasting] users' time and attention."

View on HN

A decade ago Amazon ads were for books and other products related to the page I was on. Today I get Amazon ads for whatever I had open on Amazon. I far prefer the old content-targeted ads to modern user-targeted ads.

No idea what the GP wants, but I want to go forward to a world where Westinghouse runs tasteful washing machine ads with no javascript on articles about buying a new home, instead of being able to microtarget me based on my income range and my regular visits to the laundromat to run washing machine ads next to articles about Syria.

Ultimately I ended up being convinced by Sam Harris' argument: that advertising convoluted our relationship with reality and we started expecting everything for free.

I run some services that are paid for by advertising and I see this myself: the second I start trying to charge money, I'm now the one service that people see as costing them money when all my competitors are "free." And the associated entitlement is toxic.

To answer your first question, imagine a world where advertising doesn't exist and we simply pay for those things.

I was reluctant to admit this since ads paid my way through university. But as ads make less and less money, it's harder and harder to ignore the truth. And while ads are viable, they impede the necessary cultural transformation we'll need to form a healthier relationship with the goods and services we want.

I decry this a lot. Ad blocker use is rampant. People don't want to pay for subscriptions. Etc.

It actually boils down to an expectation of slave labor for a lot of things, which people don't want to hear.

> Do you legitimately think the world would be a better place if gmail, youtube, flickr, reddit, EVERY search engine, and basically every web content site disappeared?

They might disappear, but not without replacements. Hosted email, videos, photos, discussion boards, and search are all services that would exist with or without a business model built on ad money. I don't care if they are free or paid. But the fact is that the privacy-depraved model wins because it's provided for free to the eyeballs.

And yes, I'd rather have punch-the-monkey ads. I'd even go so far as to say that I'd prefer my search results and most content-provider's offerings not ordered and filtered based on my previous behaviors.

I miss punch the monkey ads. Life seemed more carefree.

The web doesn't work without free services. For everyone who has extra money they would gladly use to pay for everysite they visit the majority won't and you will end up buying overpriced bundles from your phone company and your privacy will be worse. Free allows users a chance not to be tracked. Once you start involving money you can easily be traced.

Everything you describe could exist as a paid service, and I suspect would be much higher quality that way.

A paid youtube? Not sure they would be worth it without the endless amounts of free content by free users.

Facebook? There are plenty of sites like facebook without users. Charge for an account.. reduce the userbase, the platform loses value without the free users.

> A paid youtube? Not sure they would be worth it without the endless amounts of free content by free users.

Even if it were possible to convert these to paid services now, there's no way they could have started out paid with no existing content/user base.

A paid Facebook means it would be designed to actually serve you (instead of wasting your time) and people would use it to connect with friends instead of liking endless shitposts.

All your friends or anyone you want to contact would need to be paying customer.

If it is just friends why waste money on facebook just to talk. Most would rather spend that money on a more focused community/hobby like gaming and connect ingame.

I’d much rather go back to randomly targeted “punch the monkey” ads. Far better than the current crop of ads which are usually one of fraudulent, malware, or borderline pornographic.

Was I supposed to respond “oh no, current ads are so much better”?

> current crop of ads which are usually one of fraudulent, malware, or borderline pornographic.

That doesn't match my experience at all, but maybe you can chalk it up to targeting?

My own experience is that from running adblock all the time, aggressive blocking measures, and disabling targetting/personalisation, I get the absolute worst ads/ad networks when I do get them (for example when Firefox broke all addons a bit ago). Borderline malware, redirecting popup driveby Flash Player installers, it just feels like without enough of an ad profile built up you get whatever trash is left, no major brands or companies

Reply on news.ycombinator.com