Comment by bko | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bko | Hacker News Reader

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Why do you need "a decent wedge of cash" to have a degree?

There are plenty of universities that are affordable. For instance, City University of New York (CUNY) offers four year undergrad degrees for $6,730 a year [0]. You can get a room share in an outer borough for maybe 500 - 1.5k a month or Jersey for even less [1]. And this is one of the most expensive cities in the world. If you're smart, avoid unnecessary expenses, you can probably get by on 20k a year in expenses, which comes out to 26 hours a week at $15/hr, ignoring taxes. Taxes at about 15% at that low income means you'll probably want to earn closer to 25k to have 20k net which means 31 hours a week. But realistically you'll probably want to work full time or over time during the months school is not in session and closer to 20 hours a week at other times. Or try to find a job that pays more.

Don't know much about health insurance so that's also something you'll have to consider getting maybe through the school or some city program or just go without it.

Or just move to a more affordable city and probably cut everything above in half while hopefully only giving up a bit of the wage you'll earn

[0] https://www2.cuny.edu/financial-aid/tuition-and-college-cost...

[1] https://newyork.craigslist.org/d/rooms-shares/search/roo

So, working a four day week, and studying full time to do a degree. Yes, I can see that allowing lots of time to form a network and come up with business ideas.

I was replying to the specific claim that getting a degree requires a lot of money.

Undergrad programs are what, 3 to 4 years. That means enough money to replace 30 hour per week job for four years. With uncertain healthcare status. That is a lot of money. Over here studies are basically free, about 100 EUR incl. public transport per semester. And even then working full-time to be able to finance all of that is hard.

Health care is not needed. Undergrads are mostly young, and without kids. It is unusual for them to visit a doctor - maybe they get an infection, a $30 visit to a "minute clinic" and $20 in antibiotics, but that is a one time thing.

For the cheaper universities you can support yourself working 30 hours a week, if you make your degree a 5 year program you can cut your classes down enough that you can live on your income and have enough to pay for class. You don't get any "fun money", but all your time is focused on class so that won't matter. You are also living in the cheapest room you can find, and cooking your own meals of rice and beans (the cheapest food).

Maybe you don't want to live that way, but you could.

No health insurance? Sport accidents, serious illness, traffic accident, children,... Honestly, I still can't wrap my head around the fact someone would choose to live without coverage. That some are forced to in developed countries is shitty enough!

I didn't say it was the best idea, but the idea isn't unreasonable. Sports accidents are easy to prevent (don't play risky sports). I said no children as a prerequisite for good reason. While serious illness is possible, it is extremely rare in this age group. You can't afford to drive in my scenario, so traffic accidents are not a big worry.

I'd still want health insurance, but the odds are in your favor if you choose to not have it.

Not sure this is reasonable.

Young people are actually pretty sick which is understandable because time is needed to adapt immune system to external ambient. The lowest period of sickness must be between 30-50 yo (no data, just informed guess).

> Health care is not needed. Undergrads are mostly young, and without kids. It is unusual for them to visit a doctor.

Jesus Christ. Please don't take this as a personal attack but it boggles my mind that in 2019 this is a situation accepted as perfectly normal by a large number of people.

In many countries in the west, this is not even a question that arises. I assume you are based in the US?

That someone has to make a choice between potential financial ruin in case of an unforeseen illness or "saving" on insurance and staying solvent to pay for shelter and food in the most powerful country in the world beggars belief.

So what if I fall down some stairs and get multiple complicated fractures? I can just as well call it a day and shutter all my hopes for making it in life because the hospital bill will be punitive.

Sure, it's unlikely to happen, but the discussion here is about the fact that if a person has money (and insurance) then this would be "merely" a painful experience, whereas if they "saved" on insurance and paid for food, shelter and education instead then they are pretty much done for.

Last I checked, in the US you remained on your parent's heath insurance while in college (or until 25?). Its been that way for years.

It doesn't matter what country you live in, if you are between 15 and 30, and don't have kids: you are extremely unlikely to need a doctor at all. These are the healthiest years of your life.

That would be what I call a bet, a very risky one at that. Especially if you are not filthy rich already.

> Over here studies are basically free, about 100 EUR incl. public transport per semester. And even then working full-time to be able to finance all of that is hard.

Who needs to work full time to afford €200/year?

Housing, food, clothing, etc... Unfortunately that's not included :-)

So studies are tuition free. I suspect university costs are not being compared fairly then, because the loans people take out in the US generally cover most of that as well.

I did exactly this; went to Hunter College CUNY and paid my way through with a part time job. Mom and Dad payed all of freshman year tuition and I did live at home. End result: no student debt. But I still needed that safety net to make that possible.

I don't know what kind of life you've lived where you think $6,730 a year is affordable, but it's a lot. Most people I know would have greatly improved prospects if they had that much money to spare. Education would be low on the list. First would be fixing their failing cars/homes.

$560/month to spare would change my life. I already got a good STEM degree on Georgia's HOPE Scholarship (traditional job prospects wiped out by SaaS), so it would go to a good used car, a proper studio computer, and some clothes that aren't years old and falling apart. Plenty of people I know found themselves in debt with degrees no one would hire them for without experience. Not even stereotypically useless degrees. They were pushed into it by everyone they were supposed to be able to trust, sometimes even outright manipulated and lied to by family.

> Why do you need "a decent wedge of cash" to have a degree?

I can’t shake the feeling, though, that after a certain point, in certain (important) circles, “affordable” degrees (like the one I have) are effectively the same as having no degree at all.

Why is that? Perhaps I don't operate in these supposedly important circles, but I have never found my affordable state degree to be a handicap in anything that mattered. Granted, that's because it's an engineering degree and, as my neighbor and fellow engineer once put it, after your first job people care more about what you've done than where you went to school.

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