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Comment by pier0 | Hacker News Reader

Tim Ferriss started by selling people the idea that they could be successful too.

Except that his entire career and success is based on telling people what they want to hear.

First it was "you can be successful and you don't even need to work hard", more recently he's turned his attention to lifestyle advice such as how to lose weight, how to swim faster, how to look better.

Why would anyone take advice from him beats me, but that's another story.

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I understand the point you're making. However, consider: Logically, "you're telling people what they want to hear" has no relationship to the merits of what's being told. What people want to hear might be false, or it might be true. For example, if I told my mother "your son loves you very much," it's true that I'd be telling her what she wants to hear; I'd also be telling the truth. On the contrary, if I told that to Rashida Jones, it might be what she wants to hear, but it wouldn't be the truth.

I might also add that a lot of what Paul Graham writes could be classified as "telling smart hackers what they want to hear." After all, the message is: you can get rich and be respected, yes, you; there are few downsides to trying and massive upside, and you need never toil for a big, slow company with a big, slow boss. That's all very much what smart hackers want to hear. But it's also, I think, totally true.

It's wise to be skeptical of advice that conforms to the hopes of its audience. But it's equally wise to be skeptical of advice that doesn't so conform. What people want and what happens to be true don't bear any necessary relationship. If what Tim Ferriss is selling are books full of untrue things, then that's a fair criticism; but it's the only criticism that really makes any sense. And it's not one that I tend to hear. Rather, people react to his attitude, which while understandable, isn't actually an argument.

You're right. So it's good to discuss this kind of thing with a few alpha-geeks, who will give both sides of the story a proper thrashing. Forcefully considering both sides of the arguement, and only adopting your preferred side if it wins by a wide margin, is kinda the scientific method.

Besides, argueing is fun if you're an alpha-geek.

Paul Graham has points I agree with. He has points I disagree with.

Tim Ferris has 3 good points - automate stuff, get into business, and sieze every oppertunity. He also has a big mass of platitudes. The problem is, he makes it sound as if his points are the only ones that matter. There are lots of other important rules that you have to follow in most businesses.

I admire Tim as a person. He has done an amazing job making a name for himself. Everything he talks about is ridiculously well-researched. He's not a snakeoil salesman. For example, I have a copy of his book 4 Hour Body.. the thing is 600 pages, mentions no less than 50 doctors with whom he consulted while writing the book and endless citations that support what he says.

He has personally helped with some aspects of my fundraising process, despite having been right in the middle of his book launch, and taken the time to listen to me and help me through some situations - both with my startup and with health/fitness advice.

"He's not a snakeoil salesman."

This is an ironic endorsement.

One of his enterprises is called 'Brain-Quicken,' and it's the quintessential snake oil operation.

I have no respect for people with the ability of Tim Ferris when they also have the scruples of Tim Ferris.

Could you back that up with some evidence? I'm a firm follower in a lot of what Tim says, and everything in his book so far seems to be well researched, and provides a lot of scientific reasoning.

He's referring to Tim's first "4-hour" business, which was a suppliment/energy drink business. http://www.brainquicken.com/

Yes, that's right.

My initial suspicion while reading the book was that he outsourced the research and writing for most of 4HWW. I reckon he asked one of his virtual assistants to write up the draft of what you can use virtual assistants for...and went from there.

Still, I respect the guy for maxing out the idea, and he's certainly hugely driven.

He came out with a book about fitness? Here's my response to his blog post on how he gained 34lbs of muscle in 4 weeks: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=529040 (tl;dr summary: He made outrageous claims and employed photographic tricks.)

I haven't read it yet, but it seems more 'body hacking' than 'fitness,' exactly: http://www.amazon.com/4-Hour-Body-Uncommon-Incredible-Superh...

It's the old trick. You get rich by selling people a book that tells them how to get rich. The book says "You should get rich by selling people a book which tells them how to get rich".

He got rich by creating a supplement company, and subsequently selling that. Then creating himself a profile with his book.

If i remember correctly Tim Ferris became successful by selling supplements before he wrote his book.

It bugs me that the 4HWW advocates finding a "muse" to earn your living instead of creating something of actual value. That book explains why there are so many fitness ebooks written by The Situation and friends.

That being said, "ask for forgiveness, not permission" is great advice. It changes the way you approach problems. Anything that gets you to question the way you think is gold. In that way, the book is awesome.

> instead of creating something of actual value.

Not to bring up this old discussion again, but all of these business provide 'value.' This is capitalism; if someone pays for it, they find it valuable. You're creating some sort of secondary game where certain businesses are below you, Tim's just trying to tell everyone to play the real game.

I'm not saying writing and selling ebooks is an inferior business. I've bought a lot of great ebooks. But if you read the 4HWW closely, he recommends rehashing content from other sources and claims by doing so it justifies you to call yourself an expert. That's disingenuous at best and plagiarism at worst.

Fraud is certainly beneath me.

I expect I could make some money selling magic "quantum" stickers that enhance the sound of an audio system, making them for pennies and selling for hundreds of dollars. But that would be wrong.

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