> to top it off it is written in PHP - a programming language hated by a lot of programmers.
You could say that about any language. PHP is loved by many programmers too.
You could say that about any language. PHP is loved by many programmers too.
So upgrading is a huge nightmare. This is one reason I'm not a fan of repository pattern, more classes to inject everywhere even when they're not fully needed. When just making a fatter model would suffice.
Also lots of bad php practices...everywhere else. Bad devs can work on any code base, but laravel core code is pretty beautiful, and laravel's community encourages better code, if some bad actors write shitty code the rest of us have to clean up that's on them, but woocommerce is owned by Automattic and has bad code, you'd think they'd fix it or something being a large company.
There's also tons of great packages out there that are written way more OO and with testing and best practices than there are for wordpress. Laravel is also easier to optimize, and the data structure for wordpress can get out of hand as well.
ltdr; Yes, lots of bad laravel code -- but that's on the individual dev, core laravel and lots of laravel packages use php best practices and encourage good coding. Easier to write better code in laravel than it is a wordpress plugin.
Sure there's sexier languages like elixir and go and rust, but well designed php code is a pleasure to work w/.
https://fossbytes.com/most-loved-hated-programming-languages...
It's true that programmers hate PHP. It's true that programmers love PHP. It's true that programmers hate other languages. It's true that programmers love other languages.
This isn't very useful, as you seem to imply; but only due to the boolean perspective.
Numerically, PHP is hated far more than other languages, and loved far less (StackOverflow surveys come to mind, but I'm sure there's a whole lot more data on this)
but I can't live without using it as it's pretty much the only option for what it does....
In my fullstack workflow js is way worse than php.
Just to use it properly requires setting up an entire elaborate webpack setup (thank god for laravel mix), then there's a gajillion frameworks to choose from if you go that route, best practices are argued constantly on forums/reddit/hn....
I'd like to build an app on node but I can't ever get past bootstrapping the damn app before I get frustrated at the time it takes just to dive right in.
Very true, unfortunately.
> Just to use it properly requires setting up an entire elaborate webpack setup
This sounds like a self-imposed problem. I've been writing JS for over a decade and never touched webpack (I think it's some sort of compiler/linker)
> there's a gajillion frameworks to choose from if you go that route
Emphasis on the word "if". Frameworks are there to make life easier; if they're making your life harder, don't bother. Most things are easy enough in "Vanilla JS", now that IE6 compatibility is less important.
> best practices are argued constantly on forums/reddit/hn
Arguing over best practices is a sign of a healthy community, which is passionate about quality rather than settling for "it runs". Learning about new ideas can be useful for framing our thinking, even if we don't directly apply those approaches.
Those sort of arguments shouldn't have much impact on how we actually Get Things Done though, since we know more about the engineering requirements of our particular project than random people online, and we'll be more productive using known-good methods which we're experienced with.
> I'd like to build an app on node but I can't ever get past bootstrapping the damn app before I get frustrated at the time it takes just to dive right in.
I've not used Node in years, but again that's a choice; if it makes life harder, dump it and use something easier. Node.js bootstrapping complications aren't really a fault of the JS language; heck, you can use FastCGI if you like (that's how PHP is often run).
The bootstrapping issue is...that there's really no structure imposed.. I can setup an express script anyway I want, but I'm used to a little more syntactical sugar via rails/laravel world where you know where configs/migrations/models go. Sure I can set it up just like that, but having a go-to way of doing things is nice...
> there's a gajillion frameworks to choose from if you go that route
Vanilla js is super difficult if you need reactivity and to maintain state across the app. I'm not sure there's many Single Page Applications or PWA applications that are built using vanilla JS (unless possibly you use Svelte which compiles down to vanilla, but still you're coding using a framework and not vanilla js regardless of what the output is).
It's still ugly and convoluted mess - the ecosystem. It's a lot like php was before laravel/composer (pre 2011).
> Just to use it properly requires setting up an entire elaborate webpack setup
Webpack basically loads the scripts/files you need when you need them for specific parts of the app. It's similar to grunt/gulp and there are other tools out there. Laravel Mix sits on top webpack and has a simplified already configured way of using it, and it works for apps that aren't just laravel apps, so I often throw it in my workflow if I'm branching out or trying a different language or framework.
My point was just that php isn't necessarily the most hated, as I know plenty of people who hate js. They might even be equally hated.