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Comment by jedberg | Hacker News Reader

I used to agree with you. I thought merit based was the best system. Until it was pointed out to me that it's a very biased system towards wealthy people from wealthy countries.

Merit based systems are usually based on advanced college degrees. Who are the kinds of people that get advanced college degrees? Well first you have to have had access to good primary education, and then good secondary education, and then a good undergraduate education. People from poor countries tend not to have those things, even the smart people from poor countries.

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Our immigration system is to benefit Americans (a better economy is good for Americans). We don’t have the responsibility to make things better in other countries. It’s their government’s responsibility, not ours. Now, if they want to become the fifty first state in the union and we go thru the process and bring them in, ok.

If you take the step to agree that this would bias towards wealthy people, I'd take the next step and argue there isn't really evidence that letting only wealthy people become citizens actually makes the US a better place.

"Give me your cold, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to be free". Being an American isn't just about capitalism.

That’s a private poem, not a government policy, never was.

We have a responsibility towards fellow Americans. If the Chinese have a bias against people from their countryside, it’s not up to us to fix their mess. We want people who can come here and contribute, not be welfare for them because their own country isn’t doing the right thing. We would not be doing “the right thing” by Americans if we subsidized this either.

> "Give me your cold, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to be free"

That poem was written one year after the Chinese Exclusion Act was passed. We really need to stop using it as justification for anything.

There is plenty of evidence that wealthy people are better citizens. They commit less crime, are more economically productive, and consume more goods and services from other people, thereby boosting the economy. A nation that only accepts wealthy immigrants would be a nation with less of the problems associated with poverty.

The questions are more like: 1. is this fair? and 2. would the reduction in number of immigrants be harmful to economic growth?

It's like you didn't even read the post you responded to....

Poverty is not a unique property of capitalism.

You aren't really engaging with the point I'm making. You are thinking in this close minded "What are the Q3 earnings"-sort of way.

What if there is something deep down, something idealistic like "Equality" and "Freedom" that should actually be a right for every person on earth? That you shouldn't have to have a Harvard education to claim? Isn't the USA the place that promises that opportunity? That you can strive and work hard, and make a better life for yourself and your family?

I'm not saying kick out the doctors and ceos, but being a doctor or ceo should not be the bar for entering the US.

I don't think jedberg's point is that we have a responsibility to make things better in other countries. Rather, I think the point is that if we only focus on indicators of "merit" that correlate with wealth we'll miss out on valuable, smart people who want to come to the US from a less wealthy background.

I think they are using “skills” as a proxy for wealth. As such this poor person with skills to them is being proxied as “wealthy”. Our system doesn’t care. We care that they have skills to bring to the table.

generally most merit systems use education as a proxy for "skills" and jedberg is (aptly) noting that this is generally a proxy for wealth and not for capability/skills across the broader populace.

Let’s say that ends up being the case. It’s their govs responsibility to set up programs to promote those people to us, not ours to hunt them down.

I don’t see why it’s our responsibility to do “equal opportunity” to a foreign population we have no responsibility for. We have this responsibility for our own population, yes, but others are out of scope completely.

> I thought merit based was the best system. Until it was pointed out to me that it's a very biased system towards wealthy people from wealthy countries.

This isn't accurate at all. Sure wealth might help with merit but it's not always the case. I would argue it can sometimes be harmful too (I know people who came from rich background but were later deported back because they failed their program, DUI, did drugs etc). I myself immigrated to Canada from a South Asian country with poor family background. Just because we are poor doesn't always mean we aren't or can't get educated. A lot of people (I am not saying all but I am saying a lot) in the poor parts of my country are the ones which go to public school and take as much advantage of the education opportunities available. Our country's previous President came from an extremely poor background, used to sell newspaper and tea on subway stations when he was a kid but grew up into one of the most recognized rocket scientists, developed 5 missiles and became the president. So poor doesn't always mean we can't work hard to achieve merit.

With my hard work, I was able to secure a decent scholarship in Canada. Canada has a merit based system and it works well. I also appreciate merit based system vs a lottery draw system US has as I would rather have people understand I came here because of my own hard work and merit instead of just because I got lucky or came from a rich background. That was one of the reasons I choose Canada instead of US many years ago for immigration because I would rather be chosen by merit instead of wait in a lottery as the current system in US. A lot of qualified people have been hesitant to try for US because they don't want to play the current lottery game. If US does change to merit going forward, we might continue higher education there.

Check out which country has the most pending backlog in green cards with estimated waiting list of 70 years for people going into the queue now a good no of which have higher education in USA.

Hint: Not a first world country, it is India.

My priority date is 10 years away. Petition filed in 2017.

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