Apple engineer uses Lego to rebuild Antikythera mechanism | Hacker News Reader

Apple engineer uses Lego to rebuild Antikythera mechanism

news.cnet.com

210 pointsgommm42 comments

What should really blow your mind is the precision of the original metalworking and gearing, well before the age of clockmaking and watchmaking.

An item like that to spring in to existence without any record of a history leading up to it or a history of devices descending from it really makes you wonder whose imagination it sprang from and why it wasn't recognized that these principles had further application, or, alternatively could point to lots of stuff (including knowledge) getting lost.

It's a wonderful piece of engineering indeed, but not the first one. Gears were used long before that (http://www.nptel.iitm.ac.in/courses/IIT-MADRAS/Machine_Desig...), as early as 2600 BC for opening doors, lifting water and measuring distances. Archimedes used gears for all kind of stuff in 330 BC (See http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/ArchimedesGears.htm)

An explanation for that fact that so few devices remain that a record of history seems to be missing, could be that they were made of metals (copper, bronze, etc) which were quite precious in that time, so the devices probably got recycled. Image that, some warrior smelting a few antikythera machines to forge a sword!

I disagree. Devices like Antikythera would have probably cost a lot more than their weight at their time. One of the reasons that artifacts don't last is that some metals like iron don't last because of oxidation. Bronze however resists corrosion, and especially sea corrosion really well. And Antikythera is one of those bronze devices that we got out of the sea, it lasted two thousand years underwater.

Sure, but there is a bit of a difference in precision between a man sized gear or one that would not be out of place in a modern gear driven clock.

I think you got confused by the wording of "precision of the original metalworking and gearing", original as in 'not the lego version', not suggesting it was the first use of gears.

In a clock precision in the metalwork in the gears is important to cut down on friction, etc. But I'm not sure if the saem can be said for this ancient computer.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like what is important here is simply the ratios of the number of teeth on the different gears.

I mean obviously all the parts have to mesh when the device is cranked but it doesn't have to turn terribly smoothly to work.

It is a terrible thing that the Library of Alexandria was burnt.

Where we might be today if that had not happened...

Probably measuring data size in libraries of Alexandria, for one...

Previously on this subject:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1992756

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1992715

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1991659

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1991557

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1990493

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1988818

None of those have much discussion, but it's interesting just how many submissions there have been about the antikythera:

http://searchyc.com/submissions/antikythera?sort=by_date

In particular, this one: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1992756 has a link to a blog post by the guy that made the video with some of the background on that, which is particularly value-added.

Check out the guy's actual site with tons more technical detail: http://acarol.woz.org/antikythera_mechanism.html

What an impressive achievement. I think this is what we want all of our pet projects to be...

I've always thought that "Math with gears" would be a fascinating elective course and should be included with most engineering programs.

You will love the mechanical analog ballistic computers of 50's: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/05/19/how-a-1950s-ballisti.ht...

It explains all the mechanics used for adders, integrators, differentiators, etc... very insightful.

Love the videos!

Kudos to the director as well. The video wowed me as much as the machine it self.

Making of post here:

http://blog.smallmammal.com/

Just a clarification on the source story. I work at Digital Science, who commissioned this video. Andy had actually already built this device (we didn't sponsor building it), along with a Babbage difference engine. He brought them a long to Sci Foo this year, and i believe the filming took place around that time.

I've seen both the devices in the flesh, and they are little works of art. Not sure if he's planning on building any more.

The video is definitely very impressive, but I'm still far more impressed by the fact someone made this in 100 BC than that someone re-created it in 2010 AD. I had never heard of the Antikythera mechanism before.

Well of course, that's why the Antikythera mechanism is so unique. But that doesn't mean making it in Lego isn't kickass!

This is probably the first time in my life that my jaw has literally dropped while watching an invention/recreation in action. Absolutely incredible.

Agreed. This was absolutely stunning to witness.

Extreme kudos to Mr. Andrew Carol for resurrecting a technological gem.

Direct link to the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLPVCJjTNgk

He is a long time redditor. Gave some more info in this reddit post: http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/ej948/lego_antikyth...

Say what you will about Apple, their products, or their business model, but I've always found their engineers to be the pinnacle of quality and hacker culture.

For me the professional production of the video makes a ridiculous difference to how much I enjoy news like this. It's really nicely put together.

Related to that, the way it was posted on CNET added nothing to the information in the video and reminded me that I'm getting increasingly irked by reposting culture.

Hacker News is good because it links to original content with a snappy title and then space to discuss below. Which leads me to wonder why this item links to the CNET article and not straight to the youtube video?

Beautiful! When I first read about Antikythera sometime back, it fascinated me to learn that 2000 years ago, someone has created what seems to be the first computer.

I wonder if the Ancient Astronaut theories could actually hold water.

The same engineer also built a Lego Babbage difference engine:

http://acarol.woz.org/difference_engine.html

Anyone know what Mr. Carol works on at Apple?

I've read OS X.

Just while we're thinking this sort of thing, people might be interested to see http://www.meccano.us/. I believe Tim helped Andrew on his Lego difference engine, and he's now working on the Analytical Engine.

Brian Dunning wrote an interesting article about the Antikythera Mechanism:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4184

"Astronomers and astrologers probably could not have afforded it. It could have been used as an education tool. Most likely it was built for wealthy Romans who had some interest in its features, probably not too different from early adopters who wanted to have the first iPhone with all the cool apps."

...probably not too different from early adopters who wanted to have the first iPhone with all the cool apps.

Suckers. Didn't they know to wait a few centuries for the 2nd gen?

Reminds me of this: http://xkcd.com/659/

This is offtopic, but it makes me angry every time someone uses Lego (singular) as a collective noun. When I was a kid they were always called "Legos". I never heard someone say "I built X out of Lego". I don't know if it's worse that they try to enforce this artificial use of language, or that everyone goes along with it. "Lego bricks" sounds artificial too, but at least it sounds plural.

LEGO(TM) is a trademark, which means (in the USA at least) that it should not be used as a noun. The company risks losing the ability to assert its trademark if they don't enforce this. The "proper" use is: LEGO(TM)-brand toy building blocks.

Yeah, I know it sounds dumb and no one will ever call them that, but calling them "Legos" or "Lego" isn't correct either.

That must be a US thing. Never heard "Legos" before.

I think "Legos" is a US-specific usage. In NZ, Australia and UK I've only ever heard people say "built it out of Lego".

According to Aristotle, we uncover theoretical knowledge by exploring that which has no practical (action-based) or productive (product-based) result; and what we possess is that which is known only for its own sake, for the sheer pleasure of knowing.

I've often thought a similar distinction can be made in engineering, where the product is created for its own sake, for the sheer pleasure of seeing it exist. This is one of those. An amazing piece of work. Bravo.

For those interested in mechanical calulation, check out the Curta Calculator: http://curta.org/

I have one of these. It's amazing.

Gears doing math and the adding is especially amazing.

Then realize they figured that out over 2000 years ago.

Their next task will be to build the Babbage Difference Engine out of Lego.

Too late. They already have. :)

Truly amazing level of detail! Hopefully the plans are made available for others to learn from.

Does anyone know if some body has created an emulator for the Antikythera mechanism?

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