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Comment by moredhel | Hacker News Reader

I agree that more modern climbing gear is fantastic and definitely gives me a great deal of confidence when I am pushing my limits, I don't think that it would stop me from pushing at all.

Even using gear from 30-40 years ago, it is possible to climb with relative safety, the new gear is mainly only an incremental improvement in safety.

That's not to say that I would happily take a fall on older equipment, just that the main element of danger is generally not the equipment but the surrounding environment.

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Really? You'd be comfortable whipping in a swiss seat tied to a hemp rope (not dynamic) and stopped by a body belay? I don't think so. A clean fall onto a static rope can kill you from the sudden stop alone. There is a reason the mantra used to be "the leader must not fall" and its not because those guys were just scared.

Sure 30 to 40 years ago (1980-1990) the equipment was good, and thats about when the explosion in free climbing ability really got going. The first 5.13 (Alex's Free Solo route Freerider has a 13a pitch) was done in 77 and the first 5.14 in 85. [1] Not coincidentally, the modern cam came into use in the late 70s. [2] Good climbing shoes came in the 80s too. Sport climbing, the use of bolts (technology) to safely climb faces that weren't previously protectable also started in the early 80s. So of course you wouldn't mind climbing on 30-40 year old climbing technology.

Normal gear has been pretty stable since then and the limits of the sport have continued to grow, but that doesnt mean its not because of technology. The boom we are in now has been due to another bit of technology, the indoor climbing gym. They started in earnest in the 90s and have allowed a new level of training.

[1] https://web.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/hard.htm

[2] https://www.climbing.com/news/10-things-you-didnt-know-about...

what type of whippers are you taking? if you are setting your protection closely enough and your belayer is not leaving lots of slack, you shouldn't be falling far enough on a static rope to kill you.

I'm not taking any whips at all on static rope. That's just dumb.

But I guess you mean what kind of falls am I taking on dynamic rope that I wouldn't want to take on static rope? Its not about distance, its about fall factor [1]. Fall factor 2 falls are possible on multi pitch routes. Doing that on a static rope would really screw you up even if it didn't kill you. It could also easily shock load your anchor gear enough to break or pull it out, killing you and your belayer.

[1] https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/skills/fall_factors_expl...

But getting to the point where you can ascend El Cap in 4 hours requires modern gear. In Free Solo, most of the documentary focuses on his progress over years practicing the route.

Getting to a specific point on the face of El Cap used to be a weeks-long endeavor in itself, pushing everyone to their physical and technological limits. The fact that he was able to go for day-trips to any point on the wall to practice is a testament to all the technology involved.

He used modern ropes, hauling gear, etc, to essentially turn the route into a gym that he could practice on. He used modern climbing holds to re-create the dyno problem so he could practice at home. He literally memorized the entire sequence of moves.

It would be impossible to learn a route to the level that it requires to ascend it in 4 hours without modern technology. Imagine if practicing the dyno problem required having to fund and set up a 47 day expedition to reach it.

That's simply untrue. Climbing technology is fundamentally unchanged from the early '80s. Since then it's been a process of refinement, with the big exception of shoe technology. I acknowledge that TC Pros are tremendous shoes compared to eg '80s-era Fires.

Untrue of the parent comment perhaps, but the article is talking about going back two centuries.

Regardless, the 80s was the inception of most modern climbing gear sure; but the intermediate years were not only refinements but improvements through the culture assimilating that gear to the point of maximum utility - much the same could be said about personal computing, although the technological advances are larger, much of the advances are cultural, learning how to best utilise it.

Tommy Caldwell recreated the dyno on the Dawn Wall with plastic holds. Alex Honnold didn't practice the boulder problem on Freerider on the ground to my knowledge, he set it at a gym later for fun though.

Are the plastic holds themselves an example of the technology we're thinking about here?

The gym is, itself, a technology that has pushed the envelope on climbing. When I was learning in the 90s there was no gym where I was and if I wanted to practice I had to climb buildings. It's much easier now to find good places to work out climbing technique without traveling to the cliff.

> Even using gear from 30-40 years ago, it is possible to climb with relative safety, the new gear is mainly only an incremental improvement in safety.

Yes, but isn't that also roughly when modern sport climbing started?

Nylon ropes for climbing were introduced about 55y ago, though, I don't know when they became wide spread. Same for modern harness, modern bolts and quick draws. So your ~40y ago might be roughly correct.

Modern sport climbing started, I would argue, around that time. For instance, Red Pointing was popularized in the 70ties [2].

Also interesting is, that Phoenix, the first 7c+, the grade of the route in the Free Solo movie, was climbed in 1977 [3,4] and first free soloed in 2011 (also by Honold).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernmantle_rope [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redpoint_(climbing) [3] https://www.emontana.cz/climbing-milestones-from-6a-to-9c/

When Yosemite Mountaineering School classes went out to the rock they used nylon ropes, in 1975. I was never more than a student of climbing but everything that has been mentioned in this thread was being done, and written up in books you could buy at Kelty, in the mid 70's. Dawn Wall was climbed with 300 bolts on its first ascent (but bolt usage was ahead of its time). The 'harness' is the main refinement I would say was lacking. YMS classes were taught to put on, and the books described, the swami belt (not unknown today, but not preferred?) made on demand from webbing. Cams were advertised but chocks/nuts were the standard.

I doubt cams were advertised in '75. Friends were created in '78.

Greg Lowe’s cams predated friends by about 3-4 years

Not just nylon ropes, but multi-fall ropes: in the early 70's, we didn't trust a rope after it had taken a hard fall. You can't learn a big-wall route if you have to retire your rope after every long fall.

I saw Jeff Lowe a couple years ago and someone from the audience asked him what technology he's seen that has most revolutionized climbing- he said headlamps: The small, light, LED headlights that last 50+ hours.

I feel like you've selected a very convenient mile marker. Right after nylon ropes & cams entered widespread usage.

Using gear from, say, 45 years ago you would have mainly hexes, tricams, and nuts. Would you climb as hard then?

I disagree, in some ways it does make a big difference in pushing grades. It is much easier to plug a cam in then pound a piton when you're free climbing. To me it seems very few hard off widths would be climbed if your pro was a bong or chockstone you place. People do trad 5.11s now and think no big deal but the routes were often runout and bold leads back in the day.

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