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Comment by CoolGuySteve | Hacker News Reader

You can see the Vision Zero data here: http://www.nycvzv.info/

I don't think your interpretation about speed limits is correct compared to other factors mentioned in the nytimes article:

> more stringent enforcement of moving violations, revamping hundreds of street corners to slow down turning cars and rejiggering crossing signals to give pedestrians a head start.

For one, traffic in NYC just doesn't move that fast, especially on the streets where most of the accidents happened. It's not really appropriate to extrapolate NYC data to the rest of the United States unless you focus only on urban centers.

Second, almost all of the fatalities seem to happen around intersections. I'd expect to see more jay walking deaths in the years before the speed limit change if your interpretation was correct.

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>revamping hundreds of street corners to slow down turning cars

This is probably the biggest one. Lots of pedestrians and get hit by people turning right who can't see them until the last second because of other things on the street corner (like people waiting to cross in the other direction).

Also drivers who roll through a right-turn-on-red while looking the other way for cars. By the time they see the person walking, they've already slammed on the gas so they don't miss their opening.

There are a few intersections in my city that are notorious for this; I have an extremely loud airhorn on my bike that I use to blast drivers who allow their vehicle to move forward without looking where it's going.

I no longer believe RTOR can be performed safely by the majority of drivers— it should be banned.

New York City agrees with you.

Right turn on red has never been legal in NYC. There are specific exceptions that are always clearly marked.

Would this not also apply to right turns at stop signs? I think there is a deeper problem that needs fixing and even if we banned RTOR, it will still impact people waiting at stop signs.

Having recently been teaching someone to drive, I have strongly encouraged them to not engage in right turns unless it is clearly safe and there is no on coming traffic. Better to wait a minute than to risk hitting someone. The problem is there parents feel differently, as do the drivers waiting behind us. If people were more patient drivers, less pedestrians (and drivers) would die.

RTOR doesn't exist in France and was a source of stress when I started driving here (to not do it), and then again when back in the US (drivers honk if you don't).

My point though is that people do just fine without it.

I was almost hit when jogging through a crosswalk from this, but I saw the driver was looking left as he came rolling through the stop sign ... in his police cruiser.

That's so enraging. Honestly if I caught that on video, I would absolutely go to war to get that cop disciplined or fired, along with anyone else in uniformed who tried to defend them or pat me on the head with the usual "Hey man, relax— at least no one was hurt. Can't you let this go?"

100% agree, both as a pedestrian and as a driver. RTOR introduces deadly ambiguity in exchange for marginal convenience. It's not worth it.

I would like to be able wait for the light to change without feeling like I'm being an asshole to other drivers behind me.

I think left turns are the most dangerous for pedestrians, since the driver is focused entirely on timing oncoming traffic and performs the turn with a sense of urgency.

All major pedestrian intersections should be "all walks," where a period of time is established where no cars may enter the intersection.

I remember being in Japan and seeing these "all walk" signals, including crosswalks that went diagonally through the intersections. Brilliant.

I fully agree. I had two situations in the past 2 years where cars almost ran into me (as a pedestrian) doing a left turn, with screeching tires just barely avoiding me. In both of these cases I probably got out without an accident because I expect drivers to be idiots and was careful enough to act accordingly.

You summed it up when you said you expect drivers to be idiots. This is what I teach my kids. I say the cross walk does not mean a thing. One person looking at their phone and you are dead in the cross walk. I always tell them look and keep looking and expect that even if the car in front stopped be ready for the car behind him to hit him and push him into you (something that I’ve had happen personally).

The crosswalk's only purpose is to determine who pays for your funeral.

A big frustration of mine are people who used the bike lane in the wrong direction.

If you're turning right onto a road from a private residence, then you're probably only looking in the direction traffic is coming from. Someone biking the wrong way could easily be hit.

Ah yes, 'salmoning'[1]. Clearly dangerous for interactions with cars, and also a real headache for cyclists going the right direction in the bike lane - who gives way, and how?

1: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/05/15/3124556...

>revamping hundreds of street corners to slow down turning cars

To slow down local neighborhood traffic my neighbors put out an old single construction cone (someone has a source of heavily used cones so when they're stolen no big deal) in the middle of the road.

Folks slow down and easily drive around it. It is highly effective even when it isn't there as I suspect the local speeder folks anticipate the random construction cone might be back at anytime...

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