The oldest vegetarian restaurant | Hacker News Reader

The oldest vegetarian restaurant

bbc.com

102 pointsMiriamWeiner42 comments

Having been vegetarian since the early 90s, I can happily say the last few years has gotten amazing for eating out. 20 years ago I was in Hungary for a week and lived on salad and deep-fried camembert from the regular restaurants while my friends gorged on meat. The day before I left, I stumbled across a hidden buddhist restaurant in a basement - I believe I cried with relief. These days I can travel almost anywhere and be assured of filling my stomach with more than salad greens and cheese.

I've noticed a bit of an ebb and flow of vegetarian options at restaurants here in the mid-west US. There were not a lot of options when I went vegetarian/vegan in the early 2000's, but gradually that got better and better and then peaked sometime in the early 2010's when it was super popular to be vegan. I feel like that popularity has dropped off and I've begun to notice less options than before.

Couple that with the insane number of breweries that have been opening and you'll see their food options are very, very meat-heavy. Most in my area (and there are an awful lot) will only have an option or two, and a lot of the time that will be grilled cheese or macaroni and cheese, not exactly what I'm looking for when I eat out.

Of course, this is just my perception and it really only applies to the area I live in.

My wife is vegetarian, so by extension I end up being very conscious of vegetarian options. It's generally pretty easy to find good for her, but I am pretty surprised how limited the options can be. I feel like it's a coin flip with newer restaurants - they either have a pretty wide selection, or like you mentioned, they go really heavy on the meat and offer few or no vegetarian options.

This is unfortunately not yet true everywhere, especially outside the big cities.

Fun fact: the first vegetarian restaurant in Krakow ("Przyroda" at Św. Krzyża St. 7) opened in 1912 due to the 8th World Esperanto Congress. The staff spoke Esperanto.[1]

[1] http://digital.onb.ac.at/RepViewer/viewer.faces?doc=DTL_6196... page 56

In the early 20th century, vegetarianism in Europe and North America was utterly outside the mainstream, its practitioners considered total weirdos. So, no surprise that vegetarians would overlap with Esperantists, another bunch of weirdos.

(I am former member of the Esperanto movement, very heavily involved in it. When I say the Esperanto world abounds with weirdos, I know of what I speak. Yes, I know, that claim might mean I was/am one too.)

Yup. Both were mocked at the time: "militant Catholics [...] solemnly disavowed modernism, monism, masochism, vegetarianism, and Esperanto" (Rydwan, September 1912)[1]

[1] https://docplayer.pl/112655650-Rydwan-miesiecznik-poswiecony... page 29

> "militant Catholics [...] solemnly disavowed modernism, monism, masochism, vegetarianism, and Esperanto"

But they were totally on board with sadism.

I eat at Hiltl frequently and love it every time! Strongly recommended.

For a friend of mine, Hiltl’s presences in Zürich (and other vegeterian restaurants) was a big factor in moving to Zürich :)

I was on an airplane once where SWISS served Hiltl food. The person next to me was very positively surprised by the quality and asked me about details of the dish.

I was working 6 years in Zürich, and I really miss Hiltl. I go back every year for a weekly visit though :)

For people who go to Hiltl for the first time, I suggest using the self serving part. It's cheaper and you can get a much better selection of the food.

> I was on an airplane once where SWISS served Hiltl food. The person next to me was very positively surprised by the quality and asked me about details of the dish.

Was probably me lol. I made it a point to visit that restaurant in that trip.

I'd say Guinness should probably explain their decision-making process.

"Oldest restaurant in the world: Restaurante Botín, 1725" (https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/76907-old...).

Yet St. Peter Stiftskulinarium was recorded as operating in Austria in 803 (1), Bianyifang in Beijing was established in 1416 (2), Zur letzten Instanz in Berlin in 1621 (but recorded existing a century earlier) (3), White Horse Tavern in Rhode Island established in 1673 (4), etc. This list from Japan alone could contradict Guiness' claim (5)

(1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter_Stiftskulinarium (2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianyifang (3) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zur_letzten_Instanz (4) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Horse_Tavern_(Newport,_R... (5) https://theculturetrip.com/asia/japan/articles/the-10-oldest...

Japan has had Shojin ryori for centuries before this. It is a purely vegetarian strictly codified cuisine. This claim is false imo.

https://www.saveur.com/japan-shojin-ryori-temple-cuisine

I agree. Guinness world records for things like this should probably not be taken as authoritative since they are heavily skewed by selection bias.

It seems completely implausible that there aren't any vegetarian restaurants older than that in parts of Asia (especially in religious communities of Buddhists, Jains, etc.) where large populations have been practicing vegetarianism for many centuries. Even if you rule out things that aren't "continuously running" (whatever that means in practice) that seems quite unlikely.

Obviously.. how could we know. The source of all worked great practices started some where in Europe or America.. the rest of the world is just a giant shithole according to your people..

India Coffee House in Kolkata opened in 1870's. It is definitely much older than this. Leopold cafe in Mumbai is also from 1800s. They both serve only vegetarian dishes.

First time I went to Hiltl I loaded up the plate. Went to get it weighed. And the 45 Francer (45 USD) as I call it was up. It’s not the cheapest, but the buffet food is consistently good. And in my time in Zurich they have expanded rapidly (recently Bahnhofstrasse and Landstrasse). And I like the free water. Just watch you don’t load the plate too heavily!

In London, there are two Tibits locations, which are owned by Hiltl. They share the buffet concept and some of the menu items. Pretty delicious!

Today, Haus Hiltl isn’t just one Zürich’s most popular dining options; it’s recognised by Guinness World Records as the world’s oldest continuously run vegetarian restaurant

- i dont get this, India has a long history of vegetarianism for centuries and you find thousands of "dabas" or small eateries all over India for centuries. How can it be the oldest?

Guinness World Records was purchased by an entertainment company in 2001 and it's been a shitshow ever since. They ditched the old doorstopper reference book in favor of a big line of glossy picturebooks that contain only a few hundred records on a single subject each. They make up contrived records specifically for whatever's cool at the moment just to get mentioned in articles like this one, for free advertising.

I see them a lot in gaming articles, with shit like "Most voiced lines of dialogue in a single-player RPG" (Fallout: New Vegas) and "Longest unbroken cutscene sequence" (Metal Gear Solid 4). Nobody applied for these records; someone at Guinness researches popular games to find any random statistic that might be unique. My guess is that's what happened here--someone decided that vegetarianism is hot right now and went looking for records, without too much concern for their relevance or accuracy.

See this video by ibxtoycat where he beats a laughably bad Guinness world record in Minecraft, applies to have his result recognized, and then has his application expire unexamined because he didn't pay the large fee for priority application:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5YzeUWJ2xk

Their business model clearly no longer involves providing accurate information about records to people who buy the books.

Yep.

They made it as real as reality TV, with the same directional steering behind the scenes.

Sadly it still has much of the popular and media reputation from the careful efforts of the McWhirter's, and the Guinness years.

I hope to see their failure soon.

I dont think this is the oldest in the world, but easily verifiable because it is in Mumbai and quite famous (beats Haus Hiltl by 50 years)...

https://www.thehindu.com/life-and-style/food/the-story-of-mu...

Right. My immediate thought on starting to read the article, was that there must be an older establishment in Asia.

I was thinking the same thing. Also family run ryokans or Buddhist temples in South Asia or east Asia, but as others have mentioned it probably mostly has to do how Guinness qualifies their records.

It’s probably difficult to prove any (one) of the dhabas have been continuously running for centuries. If there is definite proof, calling Guinness should fix it.

no it is not that hard, for example one of my acquaintances who is from lucknow, uttar-pradesh, india, swears by ‘ram asrey’ (http://www.ramasrey.com/) which has been around since 1805 :) !

needless to say, the stuff from there is just amazing...

Uh, okay, but from their web site they seem to be a sweets shop, which of course can't "win" as oldest veg restaurant.

But it's not difficult to prove vegetarianism has existed in other parts of the world, so we cannot categorically say the European restaurant is the first one

Also, Buddhists. It's possible that temple food doesn't qualify as a restaurant.

Indian Jains! Some of them must have had restaurant-analogues.

Jainism mandates vegetarianism, and it seems to predate Buddhism.[0]

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion#The_Ancie...

I believe members of this community refrain from entering the restaurant business due to religious reasons.

Maybe not the dhabas since there wasn’t any long distance road transportation in 1890’s in India. However, train stations - at least some of the really old ones may have something. Apparently there’s one with its original 1856 structure still in operation - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royapuram_railway_station

The claim is that it is the oldest continuously run. Presumably that requires documentation of continuous runningness, the sort of documentation that either hasn't existed for all that long or wouldn't have tended to survive.

I'm sure Indians gonna raise a huge noise over this.

>How can it be the oldest?

ultimately it'll boil down to what one knows versus what one can prove.

"I'm sure Indians gonna raise a huge noise over this."

Should people not refute incorrect claims vigorously? This is whitewashing of history plain and simple. The West has a habit of ignoring the East when discussing accomplishments. Case in point is the West ignoring the contribution of Indian soldiers in the World Wars. E.g. Dunkirk - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-40724861

1) The above comment is rather condescending

2) 100 years is nothing in Indian history

3) Our ancestral home, which still stands, is over 150 years old and there are small eateries below which have been family run for ever and are vegetarian.

4) There are probably 1000s of 100 year old vegetarian restaurants in India. Granted they are not probably as fancy as the one in Switzerland, but they are vegetarian and restaurants and over 100 year old nonetheless.

5) If the post said in Europe, I'll believe. But given history of Asia, I have no doubt that it is not the oldest vegetarian restaurant.

Problem with most of Indian History is lack of written or otherwise corroborating evidence. Also the claim is not for the oldest, but oldest continusly running. Even then the ship of Theseus argument can be raised.

And the Ship of Theseus argument does not apply to Haus Hiltl because ... ?

> Problem with most of Indian History is lack of written or otherwise corroborating evidence.

That's what tends to happen when invaders literally blow up your temples and libraries, burn your books, etc.

Yes, in my argument I had meant continuos running.

These are family run restaurants. Started by great (or great-great or great-...-great) grandfather of current owners, serving limited menu of family recipes.

BTW: all that I said applies to large parts of Asia if the OP was not focused on just vegetarian restaurants, where India has an edge.

It's very easy to have family folklore that a dhaba has been operating at a location for a thousand years. Proving it might be more complex.

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