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> A Gillette Mach 3 and 100 blads is about $140

That doesn't seem like a proper comparison. Nobody replaces their Mach 3 cartridge after every other shave but that's a common recommendation for DE blades.

> It legitimately took me 5 years to get really good and I still sometimes cut myself

Wow, if that isn't a strong indictment of saving pennies, I don't know what is.

Mach 3 is also not the cheapest cartridge.

I didn't think it was that hard. I cut myself exactly once, and then I learned to pay more attention to the knife I was dragging across my throat :p

Imagine the savings on having a beard!

A $30 Wahl Peanut with a few guides, and 5-10 less minutes wasted in the morning per trim... and you get a beard!

Also, Wahl trimmers last forever. I still have my plugin model that I've had since the 90s and my rechargeable that I've had over a decade.

Not all of them unfortunately. I've owned two of these [1], and both had the on/off switch fail within a year of use. I now have a corded Wahl trimmer that has a more old-fashioned switch that I expect will last quite a lot longer.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Wahl-Stainless-Rechargeable-Professio...

I haven’t had my cordless as long as I thought, but it’s this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Grooming-Rechargeable-Trimmers-Profes...

I’ve had it since 2016. I mostly use it for shaving my head.

And your skin will never be irritated, and that $30 peanut will last over a decade without maintenance.

But your girlfriend will be

> And your skin will never be irritated

I develop dandruff under facial hair, just like the top of my head.

You're probably drying out your skin with hot water and soap. Not cleaning it well enough can do that too. I used to get that problem until I realized two important things.

1. Regular hot water on your hair and beard dries out your skin terribly. Especially during winter. You need to use luke warm showers and probably avoid washing your head every time you shower. Use cold water on your face afterwards and gently dry it off. Which leads into the other point.

2. Stop touching your face so much. Routinely or obsessively touching your face or beard irritates it a lot. That can inflame the skin, causing it to over produce skin, oil, etc.

Also using too much beard oil as well can cause irritation. Your skin doesn't need too much oil. Only what it produces naturally (when you don't wash it away with soap or hot water).

This approach has served me well the past decade. I can also go longer between “shaves” as compared with trying to stay clean shaven. One less thing to do in the morning is fine by me.

> Imagine the savings on having a beard!

Not everyone can grow a full beard.

That doesn't matter. Whatever beard they can grow will still save time and money.

Not if you want to look good, which is what shaving is about. I can grow a goatee and mustache, so what now I gotta shave everywhere else AND trim that stuff too? I don't think that it saves me time.

Okay, I think we just have different ideas of "looking good" (which is of course subjective!). I don't really see a problem with thinner areas in one's beard.

Not all jobs allow you to have a beard, and some allow you to have a beard only if it's nearly trimmed. Keeping a beard neatly trimmed is just as time consuming as shaving it all off.

> Nobody replaces their Mach 3 cartridge after every other shave but that's a common recommendation for DE blades

No, it's not. If anything there is a belief that DE blades actually stay sharp and last longer than cartridge blades. I don't know if there's any evidence to that, but the effect is that many DE shavers keep their blades for a number of shaves. I suspect that some are more inclined to swap blades frequently because the blades are so (comparatively) cheap.

> No, it's not. If anything there is a belief that DE blades actually stay sharp and last longer than cartridge blades.

I find this hard to believe. I can use a single Gillette Fusion 5 cartridge for a month or more.

If you use hot water to shave, Gillette blades dull very quickly. If you use cold water, they last longer than DE blades. It mostly has to do with the plastic coating on the cartridge blades. However, if you're skilled at shaving with a DE, technique actually prolongs your blades life into many shaves with the same razor.

Drying the blade makes a difference too.

For me, the most noticeable difference is my daughter would never use my DE safety razor on her legs. The cartridge style.. well.. they dulled out way faster than they should have from my usage.

I used Feather blades and would change them after each shave. I would use each side twice to get a close shave.

I’m not sure how much you could reuse a single blade. Of course I think it was like $25 for 100.

For comparison, I’ve also used a Mach 3 blade for a month, so the Mach 3 blades lasted longer than a single blade but cost much more $40 for 10.

> Nobody replaces their Mach 3 cartridge after every other shave but that's a common recommendation for DE blades.

Yeah, but you can buy a box of 100 DE blades for, like, $15. (Seriously: see https://www.westcoastshaving.com/collections/bulk-de-safety-...) So even if you change the blade every other shave, it still comes out cheaper.

This is a benefit of standardization: DE blades all have a common form factor, so any handle can use any blade. That means every DE blade maker is competing with all the others, which drives prices down. Cartridges on the other hand are all proprietary to the vendor that made the handle they fit with, so there's much less downward pressure on the pricing.

> if that isn't a strong indictment of saving pennies, I don't know what is.

The thing about a DE blade versus a cartridge is that with a DE the range of possible outcomes is much wider than it is with a cartridge. A DE blade can produce shaves ranging from "ow, I cut myself!" to "smooth as a baby's bottom", depending on the technique you apply to it. A cartridge won't ever cut you, but it'll also never give you as close a shave as you can get with a well-wielded DE blade; it provides a consistently mediocre shave every time.

To put this in terms HN readers will appreciate, arguments about DE versus cartridge tend to be kind of like arguments about vim/emacs versus IDEs. Vim and emacs users love to talk about all the crazy things they can do with their editor that no IDE can match, but they rarely talk about the learning curve they had to climb to reach that level of technique. Whereas IDEs tend to be less elegant, but by hewing more closely to modern desktop interface standards they let their users reach an acceptable level of productivity faster. Those IDE users will never reach the heights of wizardry that are possible with vim or emacs, but since very few programmers are true wizards anyway that doesn't really matter much to everyone else. Like the cartridge razor, the IDE is "good enough."

I have shaved with a straight razor for maybe three years now, and before that I used a DE for maybe five.

I don't for a minute believe that cartridge razors are incapable of giving me equally good shaves.

99% of the benefits of DE and straights is the incredible care you have to take with your technique, the awareness you need of your face's contours, and the grain of your beard over in multiple passes.

People who stick with wet-shaving care a lot about getting all of that right, and do a lot of work to get there. Similar attention to those things while using a cartridge will get you similar results. At least in my experience.

I wet-shave because it is more environmentally friendly, and I love the ritual. Also, it is cheaper.

I can confidently say I cannot get the same shave, with less razor burn, with cartridge razors versus straight razors/DE safety razor. They just don't seem to get through thick longer facial hair without trouble. With a straight razor, doesn't matter how long the hair is, I'll get through it quickly whether it's 24 hours old or six months old hair.

I think it depends a lot on your beard. I actually have a very fine beard. Cartridges do not do a good job for me. They always miss spots and the stubble the next day is always uneven. A DE works dramatically better for me. I also didn't find it difficult to learn to use either. I've nicked myself a few times, but the kind of nick where after you finish shaving you see, "Oh there's some blood there" and you wipe it off never to come back again. And to top it all off, I use my blades for about a month. I use a Feather "Popular" holder (less than $10) and Feather blades. After I shave, I brush the blade in the holder with a toothbrush, open the holder, turn the blade over, close the holder and brush with the toothbrush. Then I put it away to dry. This seems to keep the blade in good shape.

I've been surprised in this thread about people talking about taking incredible care. It came very naturally to me. I was put off using DEs for decades because I thought they were hard to use and dreaded cutting myself. Now I'm sad I never used them before.

I’d you have time I’d love advice on using my straight razor better. My email is in my profile

the best places for advice are reddit.com/r/wicked_edge and reddit.com/r/wetshaving

I would do a very poor job compared to all the knowledge there.

Digging a magnificent trench using spoons and a chisel is also possible. The precision of using that method would be unmatched even using shovels, and definitely beat the precision of the trench dug using a Caterpillar equipment.

> $40 will get you a good Merkur 34c and a 100 pack of Astra blades

The majority of that comes from the handle, not the blades. You can buy 100/500 pack of blades for dirt cheap

Re "It legitimately took me 5 years to get really good and I still sometimes cut myself" I was a disaster at shaving until 3 blade cartridge razors were introduced. Before then I used an electric shaver and was unsatisfied with the results. I doubt I want to try try a DE blade. Walmart house brand 3 blade cartridges are under $1 per cartridge, and a cartridge lasts me a week.

I think I replace my blades every month or so.

For me, after learning with a shavette straight razor, the DE is easy mode for when I have no time.

> It legitimately took me 5 years to get really good and I still sometimes cut myself

I feel like that some people (myself included at times) just like to develop skills with a steep learning curve regardless of how much benefit it actually incurs.

Hmm, interesting. Personally, I can get at least 5x shaves out of a decent DE blade than I can from a fancy multiblade cartridge. They literally start dragging and nicking on the second or third shave, while a DE is still going strong after 10...

Yet more cost-effective is a straight razor. A new one you'd actually want to use runs around $100, and antiques in shave-ready condition can often be had for much less. A straight razor will typically outlast its owner.

Like DE, it takes some practice, and in addition, requires maintenance. I use a leather strop on a rigid surface with 0.5 micron diamond paste, but the traditional method is a hanging strop and occasional honing on stones.

It's not a hobby for me, but it is a considerably more comfortable shave than cartridges. On the rare occasions I've used cartridges after getting used to the straight, I've noticed irritation, which I hadn't when I was used to cartridges.

Totally don’t understand the downvotes? Anyway, how did you learn to use one? I understand they’re supposed to be kept sharp, I’m absent-minded, and I’m afraid I’d damage the blade while trying to sharpen it.

A bit of reading online. A bit of trial and error. Only one error leading to a deep cut, and I think there was wine and jet lag involved.

With a hollow-ground razor, the most popular style, the blade is held flat against the strop or hone and the width of the spine holds the edge at the proper angle. This makes serious mis-sharpening less likely. It probably does help to have some knife sharpening experience though.

My method using a bench strop and diamond compound is not traditional, but I've found that as long as there's no actual damage to the edge, it always restores proper sharpness while more traditional methods with a hanging strop require sharpening on a stone every few months.

My first deep cut was the last time I ever used a straight razor. I’m not interested in learning curves that leave scars on my face.

I use a oneblade now, and ignore what it costs. It’s fast, convenient, safe, and has never once cut me.

May I ask how often you shave?

I tend to just keep my facial hair trimmed. I try not to use a blade because it irritates my neck. I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, so I'm sure the grappling contributes to the irritation, which is partially why I've all but given up on shaving with any form of blade.

Usually every other day. Sometimes daily, sometimes as much as 3 days.

Straight razors are very cool and a bit intimidating, but for me personally the maintenance makes it a non-starter.

Being maintainable is a positive from my point of view. Rather than having to replace blades, I can just sharpen it using very little in the way of consumables (a 50g jar of paste costs $10 and will last years).

Of course, it has a cost in time, but the straight razor itself can be faster than other razors because the blade is longer and it doesn't clog. I'm not sure if it's a net win, but I'm sure it's close.

You only need to sharpen straight razors once every 3 to 6 months. You don't necessarily need your own stone. I pay a friend to do it for a few bucks. Takes him 5-10mins. The money he invest on his wetstones has been paid back at this point.

To me straight razors represent community, whereas cartridge/disposables represent isolation, loneliness and obviously disposability. The people who are too afraid to use a straight razor, have to go to a barber to experience it. That's fantastic as it creates more social elements to this routine aspect of life.

What paste are you using?

Venev 0.5 micron.

I 100% agree. My daily routine does not need nicks, extra concentration or time tacked onto the end. Just need a quick clean shave and out the door.

DE shaving is great because it's nicer to use, an objectively better shave, better for the environment, and cheaper (or at least, can be cheaper). A pack of 100 Astra blades is <$8 on Amazon and they've all been great in my experience.

Just want to point out that the prosthelytizers of DE shaving tend to be a self selecting group of those who happend to have great success with their particular beards and that razor. There are many, many, different beards though.

I tried DE and it simply did not shave as well as gilette, no matter what the blade. I had a permanent 5'oclock shadow because of how thick and dark my beard is where as gilette was a clean shave with zero effort.

Point is, whatever razor works for you, works for you. End of story.

It can also depend on the razor you get. Some DEs are specifically designed to give you a less close shave, in order to limit ingrown hair. The same models are often recommended to first-time buyers, too, because it's not so easy to nick yourself with them.

I used to be a dedicated DE shaver; once I grew a beard, I started shaving only to clean my neck and cheeks, and decided to try cartridges again. So I tried Harry's. And man, I wanted to like them, but a Mach 3 blade is just so much better it's kind of dismaying. The Mach 3 (i.e., three-blade head) is smaller and more maneuverable; the blades seem sharper, or at least certainly glide more smoothly with less irritation; and there's actually a bit of an ecosystem around them -- I'm using a Parker handle with mine, about $30 but better than (the admittedly good) Harry's handles.

I'm glad Harry's found a nice exit, I guess, although on general principle I wish they'd been more invested in staying independent than they evidently were.

I should also mention I have a challenging face with a few moles. The gilette 5-blade head is the best. The three-blade is a definite step down. The Harry's is a good price/capability compromise.

That said, I thin the price has gone up since they came out. Saw 12 refills for $25.99 at Target and I could swear they were lots cheaper when I first tried them.

I was forever cutting a mole on my jaw line while shaving. Finally I had a dermatologist remove it. It was painless and took only a few minutes. Totally worth it.

I used to use the Gillette Mach and Fusion. But they are expensive and tend to clog. I switch to Dorco available at Amazon. They function about the same but are about 1/3 cheaper. Recently I switched to the Costco Kirkland brand. They are half the price as Dorco, last as long and no clogging. The only thing the Costco ones don't have the the edge blade for cleaning under your nose but I keep a few Dorco around for that.

>While true, it turns out that buying the DSC-branded gear is actually cheaper in most cases than buying it straight from Dorco, unless you buy a lot at a time.

Or you buy during a sale. I got so many Dorco razors I bought for not much, I think less than $1/each... Put an alert on Slickdeals.

Thanks for the tip!

Astra blades are known for being the sharpest which makes it really easy to cut yourself. I went through a sample pack awhile ago and just logged how each shave was and then picked a blade that worked best for me

The good thing about (traditional) safety razors is there are plenty of razor options for sharpness and quality, and they are all pretty inexpensive. It's easy to experiment with different ones until you find the one you like.

I initially bought a “mixed” pack containing ~5 blades of different varieties. Tried them out and chose the one that felt best. The difference between the most and least comfortable was significant, so I’d recommend taking the time to figure it out.

I settled on the Persona Blue blades, fwiw.

This! Turns out, counter-intuitively, that you don't always want the "sharpest" (read: thinnest?) blade, especially if you have sensitive skin.

I've used a DE with these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0077LAJT2, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014HJKZ2C, and https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NL0T1G. Amazon tells me the last time I bought them was almost 2 years ago. I shave about every week and a half, with a new blade each time, and I'm just about 2/3 through this one $8 box.

It takes some getting used to, but I haven't nicked myself seriously in a year or two. Seriously worth trying it out if you haven't already.

Feather blades are up there as well; probably not the best blade to use when learning to use a DE razor though

Help me! I find the safety razor handles to be way too small. To me they feel like they were made for children. I would like them to be about 40% longer than they are. Can you point me to any safety razors with handles at least as big as the Gillette Mach 3’s, preferably even bigger?

I purchased a Merkur because it had awesome reviews, then got their “large” size but they’re both laughably small IMHO.

P.S. I claim I’m older and boringer, but I wasn’t smart enough to snag that username ;)

Merkur makes the 23C which has a long handle.

https://www.amazon.com/Merkur-Long-Handled-Safety-Razor/dp/B...

Thanks. That’s the second one I purchased. It seems like I’m an outlier. They’re all incredibly short by my standards, yet modern cartridge razors often have handles that work well for me.

I have the shorter 34C. It's certainly shorter than a current cartridge razor, but it's just long enough for me to fit all four fingers side-by-side.

Or... print your own:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2702518

Man, I love the 21st century. Thank you.

Find your local makerspace, or community college with a machinist program, and ask if anyone would be interested in making you a custom handle.

I turned a simple aluminum handle when I switched to a DE safety razor, because I had the same reaction to what was available. Matched the thread of the one I purchased, turned the handle a bit longer and fatter, and then knurled the lower 3/4ths of it.

It's a very easy and fun lathe project with very few critical dimensions.

Love that idea. Thanks.

DE= double-edged I assume?

I think so, I had to google it.

I think in this case it's used in kind of an "I'm a member of an exclusive club" with a (possibly subconscious) emphasis on "exclude".

I am reminded of "Acronyms Seriously Suck" (Elon Musk memo)

I didn't mean to communicate that, but your point is fair nonetheless. In my defense I think I was inclined to use the acronym "DE" because I had already read through the existing comments and had seen other discussions already taking place about double-edged safety razors and referring to them as "DE" so I kinda switched to that "in the club" mindset without thinking. My apologies if you'll have them :)

> - Dollar Shave Club and Harry's really are a great way to save money on shaving. Ideally that will continue even with both being owned by big corporations now.

Dorco razors are the best option. They make the razors for Dollar Shave Club, but are cheaper. They've been in business a long time and make a great product.

If you read the rest of my post you'll notice I did mention Dorco with context:

> It's sometimes pointed out that (in the past, at least, cannot confirm this is still true) Dollar Shave Co. is just reselling handles and blades made by a company called Dorco. While true, it turns out that buying the DSC-branded gear is actually cheaper in most cases than buying it straight from Dorco, unless you buy a lot at a time.

I have a beard and only shave a portion of hair below my jawline. Would it be difficult to use a straight razor? Even with cartridges I can cut my Adam’s apple.

So a straight razor is the old fashioned, flip out single blade, need to sharpen kind. Not sure if you're intending to refer to that or not. Whereas safety razors are the two-sided head cheap disposable blade kind.

I can't talk too much about straight razors, I think they're a bit dangerous without a good amount of practice.

Safety razors are fine for below jawline shaving, though you will probably nick yourself a bit until used to it. I use a Merkur 25C and have a beard and I think it's excellent. Rarely nick myself. Could never use electrics or modern disposables effectively, they tended to load up and clog badly.

For what it’s worth I did this for years, without issue. It’s perhaps a little slower, but not much when you are just cleaning up. It takes a little practice to get good at maintaining the line, and you do need to care for the blade (not a lot of time, but required).

At first you will be slow, as worried about cutting yourself. You probably won’t actually cut yourself until you relax about it after while...

You won't cut yourself if you keep your razor sharp and use good technique. Short, confident strokes with your other hand adding tension to your skin. Really I rarely cut myself with a straight razor now. And it's usually because the blade starts getting dull, which happens after like 6 months.

What an approach to pulling a literally razor sharp blade across your own neck.. “be confident”.