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Comment by netwanderer3 | Hacker News Reader

There are three facts that are not going to change anytime soon. Number one, integrity is a trait not every human possesses, most don't so the power balance will always be tilted to the other side. Number two, money still rules this world and who has the most of it? Corporations! Number three, society is not going to adapt to each individual, only the other way around.

As a result of these three facts, sometimes life can get pretty tough if you don't join the other side. Integrity was more valued in the past but it simply does not have the same weight in today society as modern competition has ramped up everywhere making everything much more difficult for the average citizen. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself becoming a villain. In other words, we either throw integrity out of the window and survive, or we die with it.

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Curious, is this rosy retrospection or are there objective measures that integrity was more of a mainstay in the past?

Also the way that politics works, there tends to be self-selection by those of little integrity. Those who desire power are frequently those least suited to it. It is unlikely that those who demur with 'nolo episcopari' attain positions of importance in a representative democracy.

The math doesn't add up here.

Either integrity is a virtue, or it's not. Either it's something people value, or it's not.

If it's something people value, then it should be one of the attributes people weigh when they choose a spouse/job/politician/cell phone carrier. If it is, then the marketplace of spouses/jobs/politicians/cell phone providers should be incentivized to provide integrity, and also to broadcast that their competitors do not.

I would argue this happens pretty regularly. Samsung using Apple's battery throttling in it's ads comes to mind.

So integrity definitely factors into the marketing calculus of politicians and corporations, but maybe the market doesn't value it enough to offer it the primacy you're looking for.

I mean, honesty is also a virtue. So's loyalty.

That doesn't mean we vote for loyal, honest politicians. (Just people who present themselves as such, which can be significantly easier)

I'm still with Robin Hood. I agree though, integrity seems to be in remarkably short supply of late. The older I get, the flakier people seem to be when it comes to showing up when they said they would.

We force them to deal with us individually. I think that is the difference that we must maintain or we quickly become collectivized.

Individual rights.

Honestly, I think a great first step would be alcohol and drug testing for politicians and zero tolerance.

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