Bird One Scooter – Pre-Order
shop.bird.co
shop.bird.co
1. Non folding stem: Adds durability for a rental, but the super quick fold is a huge part of the appeal of a scooter, because it means you can easily take it with you on the train, put it in the trunk of a car, or store it under your desk. If you didn't care about compactness, you'd probably buy an e-bike.
2. Huge battery: Adds to the cost and weight, which makes it more annoying to carry. Great for a rental where Bird is paying per charge, but very few people need to ride 30 miles between charges, and for those that do, they'd probably rather have an e-bike that is faster and more stable.
Ala Tesla auto driving fleet
The Bird One marketing document doesn't really go into detail, but the huge battery and GPS functionality suggests to me that the expected approach for using these scooters is to park them on the street and leave them there. If they borrow the anti-theft functionality that you see in VanMoof bicycles, this scooter makes a lot of sense. You ride it around town. You charge it in your garage. You leave it on the street when you're done with it. If it's stolen you look up its GPS location and the police help you get it back. There's low urgency to charge it. If it breaks, they'll fix it for you. And if you don't have it with you, Bird comps your rental scooter.
That's a lot more compelling of an offering than just a "heavier, faster, longer-range" scooter.
Do your police do that?
My own personal experience was that they noted my report, duly filed some paperwork in their write-only document storage system, and then went back to issuing traffic fines.
They’ll still get stolen, but after apple implemented its current “find my iPhone” scheme, thefts of those devices has plummeted compared to what it was before.
When you live there you have a huge salary and the feeling that 1k is nothing, so selling a scooter for 1k is nothing, reality is that SV is a world of its own. That's complex product management issue in my opinion
I got a boosted board when I moved to San Francisco.
Well, reason number one is that the public transportation system is a joke in this city compared to the European cities I am used to.
The price still felt steep but I can afford an 1k skateboard with a tech salary. Especially if I can recoup part of its cost by avoiding lyft rides.
I live 25 minutes from work by foot, 10 by boosted.
When it rains, I just don't bother using my boosted, I go for a nice walk instead.
It is possible to use it when it rains but :
- most important point : your adherence will be way worse. With slick wheels, the board slides a lot when it rains. Your braking distance becomes way too long.
- you also get your pants and shoes wet. Not as important as point one of course, but still annoying.
I live in SF so I don't expect to see any rain in the next 6 months.
Really? My perception of SF was that they get frequent rain is generally one of the wetter places in California
My perception is that the weather of the past few years has been widely out of what is expected in all the places I have resided in.
Last year SF has been very dry
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/10/01/approaching-fro...
one article on the topic .. 159 consecutive days (or maybe more) without rain.
Which was great for skating :)
The weather was not that hot either .. mostly between 13 and 21 °C.
I get amazing transportation for pennies (its very cheap to recharge the batteries), its fast enough once you get into the city, and it'll survive a bit of rain here and there.
Alas, until the skateboard/scooters catch up with the nearly-all-weather requirement, I don't see mopeds being replaced in this market any time soon.
I love riding one, but you need to stay extremely vigilant and even though, hardware failures, bad roads or cars can still spell trouble.
They got the controller design and the acceleration and deceleration curves right. You can accelerate with your thumb and the motion or grip of your hand doesn't affect your acceleration. The acceleration and deceleration are gradual and dampened, so you won't pitch yourself off the board when you accelerate or slow. You have brakes. You can even slow, stop and then go backwards. It's a safer board.
And anyway, the price is coming down.
(ok, off my soapbox)
I see people riding by on Boosted Boards and sometimes think that I want one. I never think that when I see someone on a scooter. I like to ride the scooter now and then, but I don't want to own one, nor do I want to carry one into my home or office.
Having a single wheel also means the wheelbase/turning radius is extremely small - you can turn in-place with enough skill.
For example what happens if the battery dies ? since the OW balances itself, I fear it would be worse than a boosted (for which you are already potentially in a tight spot but you might be able to slow down manually) .
The OW has a feature called "pushback" - when the battery is nearly-depleted or you are going too fast, it will aggressively adjust the angle of the board backwards, forcing you to slow down.
In the event of a low battery, you'll end up traveling at extremely low speed until the back end of the board touches the ground, forcing you to stop.
On a boosted, I can go to the other side of my city, but I cannot do the return trip.
I can do the 6 miles to go there (since there are slopes, we are far from the theoretical and inflated max range) Spend several hours .. and I would love to be able to go back on my skateboard afterwards.
I’m not spreading that myth by suggesting that people consider choosing a half marathon rather than a full marathon, gradually increase their training level, or avoid something that might have the risks of running without the rewards.
My main worry on an eskate is to fall and gravely injure myself. Even if you are extremely skilled, you might still miss a pothole one day or a car might do something very stupid.
As far as wear on my joints .. I dunno .. most of the riding involve no shocks, the only fatigue is to have to stay on a slightly bent position.. your calves are the muscle that fatigue the most during eskating.
I have fine balance normally so I've always wanted to try a Boosted because it'd be handy when I go into our SF office or when I do stuff in San Jose.
The trickiest part of skateboarding is foot breaking and pushing, with the boosted board you really don't have to do either so it's generally a lot easier. I'd guess given a couple hours and a week cruising around a bit you'd be comfortable going pretty fast.
I wear a helmet and sometimes wrist guards depending on how risky I'm feeling. If you're in town and want to try it let me know.
You also get a lot better at it with time. Shocks that would have thrown me to the ground 1 year ago are not that scary anymore.
Just find a park or a parking to learn to use it.
A scooter's handlebars help but not as much as a bicycle, and I think it lulls you into a false sense of security.
Then I saw your comment... nope.
Turns out Segway is owned by Ninebot and a large chunk of Ninebot is owned by Xiaomi.
In terms of build quality, both are pretty similar.
Here is the source:
https://www.engadget.com/2015/04/15/segway-ninebot-xiaomi-ac...
Or anyone who has to ride over seamed concrete (sidewalks) and wants their knees to still work.
Scooters don't have great shock absorption, so all that energy is going in to your joints. Over time you'll develop issues.
The xiaomi m365, for example, is one of the most commonly owned electric scooters, (I am pretty sure it used to be the model that Bird based their scooters off of), and you can buy them for ~425$ or so.
Of course I wouldn't spend that kind of money for either a scooter or whatever the hell the Ninebot wants to call itself.
[0] https://www.usa.gov/state-surplus-sales
[1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/Durable-Board-Dashboard-bluetooth-M...
Even though it's very obvious it's not a Bird (no labeling, doesn't have the large box on the handlebars, doesn't show up on Bird's map) people assume its a Bird scooter anyway and start fiddling with the controls.
Now he U-bolts it to bike stands, and now riders leave it alone in confusion.
What's the benefit of buying this from Bird vs any other scooter mfg? Unless, this is some sort of rev share where they can let you rent in their network and make money.
This Bird scooter has very little that sets it apart from the low cost crowd.
Those scooters are fast though, easily going 20 mph. I can’t imagine what the ride is like in our pothole filled streets...
With a quick Google search, you can find the same Segway scooter that many of the scooter companies (including Bird) have used for around $500, new.
This assumption is not exactly unwarranted.
I don't know the difference between a $1200 scooter or a dui-scooter. However, the overall opinion is if you aren't in a traditional vehicle or a crazy cyclist, you're riding the vehicle you're riding because you are not legally allowed to drive.
Even if there is a grain of truth in some stereotypes, it is harmful.
For about the same money you'd spend on one of those scooters you can easily get a used motorcycle that will be far more comfortable and performant, it just requires a valid license.
I can't understand why petrol mopeds are still sold.
I'm just curious because often the smaller the engine, the noisier it is.
When I bought my house, I bought electric lawn tools as small engines are pretty terrible polluters. I read an article several years ago, by Car and Driver I think. They took a push mower, a Fiat 500 and F150 Raptor and hooked them up to some emissions testing equipment. 30 minutes of running the mower had higher emissions, other than CO2, then driving the Raptor 3000 miles.
And a 50cc Moped or Scooter has an insane MPG its why they are used for deliveries.
“Bird One owners get access to additional rides on our dockless shared network in 100+ cities worldwide—so even if you’re away, you’re never without Bird.” [They mention “20 free rides” but don't say if that's per month, per year, or a one-off with the purchase.]
“Bird Service Centers offer expert vehicle care and added peace of mind.” [No word yet on location or what sort of care is included.]
The Verge has this on the service centers/anti-theft:
“If your scooter breaks down, VanderZanden said you can bring it (or mail it) to one of Bird’s service centers, located in North America and Europe. If the scooter is stolen, Bird’s “bird hunter” network of freelancers may be able to track it down and find it.”
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/8/18535698/bird-one-electric...
Then Bird, Lime, Lyft and Jump all appeared. There's always several Jump bikes outside of my place, which negates the need for my own bike.
EDIT: Just realized that this is also probably out of your budget. Going to leave it for anyone else that's interested though.
RAD Power bikes are reasonably priced, but a bit more at $1499 for a RadCity: https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radcity-electric-comm...
It's a valid argument if you don't already bike to work, or have a tough commute, or sweat a lot. But if you bike frequently, you sweat less as you become more fit. You can also control your pace. And if your office has a place for you to change (or even shower), then it becomes even more appealing.
Although I disagree with scooting over biking for short distances, I'd imagine a lot of people have this fear of arriving to their office with any sweat.
Unlike cars, the purchase and maintenance cost of scooters is minimal. And you don't need a license or insurance. The only reason to rent one is lack of scooter parking or if you're visiting. Eventually society will catch up and scooter rental will be like bike or car rental. A viable business, but not nearly the scale of rideshare.
You only need to look at how successful Jump bikes are vs scooter rental to see where this is going. I've already seen many people around town that were driven to buy their own scooter after trying out the rentals. It's just one big advertisment for buying your own scooter.
Rental will still exist, but I expect the market to shrink, not grow, in the cities that already have rentals available. The barrier to buying your own is too low to make this a viable SV style business
We're going to look back at everything "consumer electronics pink" in a few years and cringe. I'm surprised Bird is willing to let their marketing team further complicate their brand for the sake of short term sales.
See Jump for effective use of color. Take note that they only use one…
white / pink stuff does get dirtier more easily than black. it just requires you to care for your things and keep them clean and don't abuse them.
next you suggest we should make all shoes in a single color?
There are other reasons, outside of complicating branding, to stick to one color: https://blog.bolt.io/sonos-x-hay-8fb9e96fcc72.
"Can Bird build a better scooter before it runs out of cash?"
https://hackaday.com/2018/12/07/liberating-birds-for-a-cheap...
The "free ride program" details:
20 FREE RIDES • Up to $5/ride on shared Birds • $100 value
This is a business strategy that only works with heroin.
"it's" = "it is"
The rule is, in English, you can make a noun possessive by adding "'s" to the end.
Let me emphasize one part: that's the rule to make A NOUN possessive. "It" is a pronoun, not a noun! The rule doesn't apply any more than it applies to a verb or an adjective.
Hence you don't have stuff like "you's", "he's", "she's", "we's", or "I's", and you also don't have "it's".
Can people please stop claiming electric vehicles are zero emissions?
Not saying it’s okay, but it’s a valid statement.
It should be mandated that if you want to appeal to green-fingered consumers with your marketing, you have to state the emissions deficit from which your product operates and how many years it would take to recover from it with typical usage.
I commute in the summer on a Boosted Board, which uses most of the 99Wh battery to go one way (8km). My electricity in Ontario is largely nuclear and hydro, but say it's the worst case scenario and all the power comes from gas— the emissions from consuming 0.1kWh is ~35g CO2:
https://canadianenergyissues.com/ontario-power-stats/
https://www.google.com/search?q=240+tons+%2F+602+MWh+in+g+pe...
This is a far cry from what it would be driving that same distance in my Mazda 5, which would be a little under a litre of fuel (21MPG -> 11.2 L/100km), or 2.3kg of CO2, a 65x difference.
It's possible you're coming from a place of legitimate care, but honestly your comment sounds a lot like concern trolling to me. If there's anything out there which needs an "emissions deficit" sticker to help dissuade conscientious purchasers, lets start with private automobiles.
I'm sure it's unintentional but it's not clear to me what you're asking. So a range of possible answers:
1/ I don't know because they don't tell us what it is.
2/ It's the sum total amount of emissions directly caused by its production divided by the number of units produced. See also: carbon offsetting on planes.
3/ It's a number greater than zero and given that the electric scooter in question does not appear to be obviously replacing a car but walking or cycling, it's a meaningful question to ask.
> Even combined with mass transit, surely the power consumed is miniscule compared with driving alone in a car, and the car is many times the initial manufacturing cost in metal parts, motors, even batteries.
This is totally true, but I don't think it's anything to do with my point, which is:
> It should be mandated that if you want to appeal to green-fingered consumers with your marketing, you have to state the emissions deficit from which your product operates and how many years it would take to recover from it with typical usage.
I don't disagree with anything you say about your Boosted Board being better for the environment than your Mazda 5. But it's nothing to do with my point.
> but honestly your comment sounds a lot like concern trolling to me.
I legitimately care that people are allowed to market goods as being environmentally friendly or "low emissions" without having to substantiate the emissions which go into their manufacture. Especially when they seem to me to be marketed as an alternative to cycling or walking, which seem to be obviously low-emission.
> If there's anything out there which needs an "emissions deficit" sticker to help dissuade conscientious purchasers, lets start with private automobiles.
Again you're not really arguing the point, but sure, I think this is a good idea (?). Especially for cars marketed as environmentally friendly but which come at a significant creation cost.
This is an unreasonable assumption.
I think you meant "the majority of cases".
According to https://mi-xiaomi.net/specs/, the scooter uses 1.1 kWh per 100km. Let's say you ride this scooter 10 miles a day on your nice, short commute. That's roughly 0.2kWh. The average home uses ~35 kWh per day, so this is in the noise of household electricity usage.
Per https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gases-equivalencies-ca... that's roughly 0.3 lbs of C02 in those 10 miles in the average US state. Obviously it's significantly lower than that in many places using nuclear, natural gas, and renewables, and it is decreasing annually everywhere.
According to https://www.answers.com/Q/How_much_carbon_dioxide_does_a_car..., the average car produces 0.6 lbs of C02 per mile, or 6 lbs of C02 in that 10-mile commute.
So the electric scooter isn't quite zero, but it's insignificant at less than 5% of the emissions of an average car.
Once you fall once or twice on these scooters, it’s hard to ride them again. Especially when it’s the scooter that’s broken, as is often the case. It’s a shrinking market base, consequently. They (Uber-Jump, Lime) should have given incentive by offering some kind of coupons after an accident, instead of declining all responsibility and sending you the terms you signed or ghosting their customers.
Lime has bailed out of Zürich after a serious accident which was caused by a scooter applying the park brake at speed due to some firmware issue.
The German firms have models that have a brake that works mechanically on the wheels and this was the prerequisite by the city police after the lime accidents. Lime's scooters don't have a mechanical brake.
I hope this trend goes away.
There is a reason The Carlyle Group never rolled up all the bike rental shops into a big nationwide conglomerate!!