Tencent replaces PUBG with a Chinese government-friendly alternative | Hacker News Reader

Tencent replaces PUBG with a Chinese government-friendly alternative

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129 pointsmortenjorck69 comments

The title name, Game for Peace is like straight out from Orwellian concept of double-think.

> The new Tencent title bears a striking resemblance to PUBG but there are no dead bodies, while it plays up to a nationalist theme with a focus on China’s air force

It looks like the new title was 和平精英. not Game for Peace. Still, it sounds a lot like double-think.

Google Translate says "和平精英" means to "Peace Elite". Is that an accurate translation? I assume "Elite" in this context is a noun referring to elite soldiers?

Sounds like there may be a cultural colloquialism involved, in the same way that "defensive systems" gets used to refer to rockets and artillery in the West.

More like "Peace Master" if you had to translate it loosely.

Yes, it's accurate.

Counter Strike was translated as 反恐精英, where 反恐 meams counter terrorism. I have no idea how these elite things came into play.

Interesting: Google translates 反恐 as "counter-terrorism" (like you say) and 精英 as "elite" (like this "Peace Elite" game), but the combined phrase 反恐精英 as "Counter-Strike". :)

elite here just connotes "elite military force" kind of idea

Will you laugh if I tell you the game Half-life in China is called literally "Half of Life" (半条命)[0]?

Don't take that name too seriously, I don't think there is anything to it other than to make it sound better.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_(video_game) (Notice the language selection)

I laughed years ago.

It was less popular than Counter-Strike (which was acronymized as CS) in China when I was young. And I didn’t bothered with the translation for years before I realized the correct one.

和平 = Peace; 精英 = Elite. So yes, that's the literal translation. They're probably trying to give the game a up beating vibe by using that name, so it's easier for it to be approved by the government.

"反恐精英" on the other hand, should be translated to "Counter-terrorism elite". But "反恐(Counter-terrorism) 精英(elite)" itself is a non-literal translation of Counter-Strike.

We did Orwellian first. Not as heavy handed as direct censorship though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Army

No, that's pretty straightforward and honest. Orwellian would be if it were called "America's Peacemakers"

As I said, not as heavy handed as war is peace in the title, but war is a fps is still pretty Orwellian.

The real mind bender with AA is that you always play as Americans, but to your opponents you look like terrorists and vice versa. Nobody thinks he is the bad guy, but to the other team everyone looks like a bad guy! When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

There was a great Black Mirror episode[1] about this concept, highly recommend. Obvious spoiler warning in the wiki page.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Against_Fire

Check out video of the latest Battlefield series. May make you ill.

China is a threat to freedom everywhere.

I know games seem like a tiny thing, right? But it matters when a government suppresses freedom of expression, even when it comes to a silly video game.

China sees it as their prerogative to do whatever they want to their people, including, by the way, detaining hundreds of thousands without charges in re-education camps.

> re-education camps

If you're referring to the Uyghurs in Xinjiang, there is a lot of outcry, but little evidence to back up statements made by Western press. Google doc amalgamating sources: https://tinyurl.com/xinjiangmyths

Related to Chinese game censorship:

1. A game developed by Taiwanese studio, Devotion, has been removed from Stream by its developers due to a hiding meme about Xi Jinping founded by Chinese gamers earlier this year.[1]

2. Still earlier this year, Chinese Overwatch players being instantly banned from the game for typing the words "Winnie the Pooh" in public chat.[2]

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18239937/taiwanese-horror...

[2] https://www.dexerto.com/overwatch/chinese-overwatch-players-...

They should switch it up with the Winnie the pooh references.

So a game company removes one of their own games, and replaces it with a different version with a different name?

If the company decided to do that independently, does that matter? Maybe they could be capitalizing on nationalism?

If the government made them alter it, how would that be different than say Left 4 Dead having different censorship in Germany

Because the altercations included pro-Chinese language.

I mean so? There are plenty of video games that are pro America. It's still OK to be pro China even in the face of their abhorrent social policies. Would you rather we just cut off all recognition that China exists or something? Don't think that's gonna help.

There hasn't been a game that was banned in the US until it had altercations made to be Pro-US. That's the difference.

PUBG is a simple battle royale game with no concept of nations in-game, and the Chinese government banned it until there was pro-Chinese content in game. Wh

alterations*

"altercation" means "fight".

Ah, sorry I missed that. Typing on mobile.

This is the difference:

"In its place, Game for Peace is very much the type of game that will pass the demands of China’s game censorship body."

The idea being that consumers aren't the primary drivers for changes in what is available in the market. Rather this decision was primarily influenced by a central government body that controls what is available in the market. It's an explicit example of levers being pulled by the government in a planned economy, in contrast to a more "democratic" if you will, market mechanism.

FWIW, Left 4 Dead has different censorship in Germany because of levers being pulled by the government, not because the free market prefers it that way.

That seems like a very obvious false equivalence.

L4D being censored in Germany was also bad, just to a much lesser degree.

I think games do, or used to, remove swastikas for Germany as well.

L4D was also censored in Australia I think.

Left 4 Dead 2 was censored in Australia, until the classification board started allowing R-ratings for games. It was re-released (if I remember correctly) without the censorship.

You are correct, swastikas (and other symbols of the national socialists) had to be replaced/removed in Germany in the past. Nowadays games have been recognized as art form and a game developer can request admission to the German market without removing the symbols first. I'm not sure if there's already a game which did this on the market.

First game that was allowed to do so was “Through the Darkest of Times”[1] by Paintbucket Games. I’m not sure Wolfenstein or l4d would get a clearance though.

[1] http://throughthedarkestoftimes.com/

L4D has no swastikas, so no problem there :) Wolfenstein yeah.. that's a different story xD

Would be an interesting case. After all, 'Inglourious Basterds' was allowed to show them and it seems hard to argue how that movie is different from a Wolfenstein game.

Recent Wolfenstein games are all about a timeline in which the Nazis won WW2 using advanced technology looted from an ancient superadvanced civilization.

So I could see "an entire world where the Nazis won WW2, and the resulting propaganda everywhere" getting a hard look.

Yes, games still do (all Wolfenstein versions were either illegal or censored). Not merely the Swastika used in Nazi Germany; also other symbols from Nazi Germany. See this video comparison for examples [1]. Summary: at least Swastika, SS bolts/runes, and Iron Cross (even though that one was used in Germany way before Nazi Germany). In this video they're using mostly the Wolfenstein logo as replacement but there might be some easter eggs as well.

IIRC in the past blood was also made green but perhaps I'm confusing with other countries.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/embed/1hK4Px4O8aE

What's a little ironic given the tone of the article is this could be considered a region lock and many gamers call for region locking China due to rampant cheating.

I do hope American companies begin to wise up and realize that though China may be one of the largest markets, it is essentially worth $0 to a foreign company. The Chinese government will not, repeat, will not allow a non-Chinese controlled company to win long term. In the short term a foreign company may be allowed to achieve some success but at the cost of IP; I'll leave out the ethical considerations.

Maybe the realpolitik suggests that companies should continue to try in China since the alternative is further isolation between China and the Western world which may hasten hostilities? I just can't fathom why a company like Google still wants to work in China, they'll make product and IP concessions to the Chinese government and will either lose Google China autonomy or be replaced wholesale by a Chinese company. Where is the shareholder value?

The new version contains a small banner at the left corner for PLAAF(People's Liberation Army Air Force) recruitment. The old to new game process is just replacing the old PUBG application with the new one and the update process suggests that the maps are just modified by a little, mostly the same. Most of my old game data are migrated to the new game. My player level, guild, achievements, war record, old season battle records- hey, this is just another skin for the game to met the legal requirements like how the green blood works before!

"The new Tencent title bears a striking resemblance to PUBG but there are no dead bodies, while it plays up to a nationalist theme with a focus on China’s air force — or, per the Weibo message, “the blue sky warriors that guard our country’s airspace” — and their battle against terrorists."

Which makes the poster, where it is mainly made of Caucasians super funny.

That's really weird because there are no aircraft in PUBG besides the plane that drops you off and the supply plane.

I wonder if this means the desktop version of PUBG is also banned in China now? There has been a big problem of cheaters in this game, and others like it, the majority of which are Chinese.

Yeah I never understood why they mix asian and western player populations together like that. There is obvious cultural differences, of course there is cheaters of all creeds, but I promptly stopped playing this game when the chinese flooded it. No fun in playing a team game whera A. You can't communicate with your teammembers, B. Your teammates will shoot you in the face the moment you get better stuff than they have. (Had chinese do this to me 4-6 times in one day).

Edit: removed inappropriate generalization.

Tell me, did it strike you at any point that generalizing Chinese players viewing you as just another generic white person might have some hint of the pot calling the kettle black?

First of all I'm not generalizing. What I say is purely based on my experiences. Experiences may differ. Im not racist, infact I love China as a country (I want to visit again sooner than later) and I think that many chinese are good honest persons, especially the elder more talkative and the young people from the big cities (especially Shanghai youngsters seem very "western" for a lack of a better word). But there is many that are not. Its cultural, imagine the history of the chinese. Having empathy and having the balls to take a stance would at some points in history have cut your lineage short in china.

Its actually kind of funny that you accuse me of generalization, since every single chinese I have met in China referred to me as "Englishman" and wanted to take pictures with me because i had "jew hair"

You are describing every player who was a member of a group as having similar characteristics, based on your experiences with (presumably) the subset of those players you've encountered.

I'm not weighing in on whether you're right or wrong, here, just remarking that you seemed to be demonstrating similar behaviors to those you were complaining about.

It's possible to stereotype or overgeneralize about cultures and people in ways that are not negative.

I'm also not (intentionally) suggesting that your observations of behavior are accurate or inaccurate, or that the relevant people weren't engaging in the same behavior, just that the grouping of a complaint about people overgeneralizing with defining of the people doing the grouping as members of a very large group was quite striking, to me.

No I described my general experience in a certain game, after a specific market was opened. Of course it was a subset, I met like one or two super cool chinese players, even had a few chicken dinners, but the overall experience for me was not worth it after the chinese flooded the game, I and many others simply stopped playing. How is what I say here similar to what what im complaining about? Am I referring to all chinese dog eating communists? Am I implying I shot them promptly in the face ingame for their gear, because they did it to me?

Yes its possible to stereotype and overgeneralize in a positive way, I can say lot of positive things about China and the chinese, but not really when it comes to online gaming culture, sorry!

Its just a general problem with mixing regions like that, similar things could be said about russians in the EU region of CSGO etc..

I think it's not the same because they disregard the rules and refuse to communicate (at least that's my impression).

Unfair game is unfair game no matter what nation / race or skin color you are

Sure, I wasn't trying to suggest they were completely equivalent.

The fact that the parent was objecting to every member of a group of people treating all members of another group of people similarly struck me quite strongly when reading it, separate from the discussion about differences in culture.

Have you ever actually played the game? Or browsed the forums, for that matter?

https://steamcommunity.com/app/578080/discussions/1/

Players saying nothing but "CHINA NUMBA ONE" in game chat made me ditch PUBG for CoD Black Ops 4. I'm happy to play with non-english speakers if they want to play together. The problem is there were so many of these trolls that it made playing in a random squad unbearable.

I haven't experienced any of that in about 6 months, unless you like playing TPP then your mileage may vary.

Bleh, someone has to say it. It's all because of culture, could be the culture of the game in those versions, not necessarily the culture of the country. I remember I used to play this golf MMO called Albatross / Pangya that was all tea and cookies until the company bought the brazilian provider of the game. Suddenly we were flooded with cheats, in-game currency begging in the chats. The admins made it clear that such behavior was forbidden but eventually ended up banning all south american IPs IIRC. Bad move because I lived in Chile back then, and I wasn't gonna set up a VPN just to play that game.

Its most definitely not Chinese culture, but a subset of Chinese GAMING culture. Just like all western gamers aren't misogynistic trolls that yells "tits or gtfo" to all female players. Its a subset.

In a similar vein, many Chinese players of Ark are cut-throat players that rampantly cheat. It's not that there aren't cheaters from all cultures, but there seems to be a culture or sub-culture in China that employs cheats as easily as the designed game mechanics to the point that a fun experience is a distant priority behind winning.

to all those silent downvoting, I assume you havent played these battle royale games enough to experience what @cannedslime is discussing.

If you have, plz reply with why he's wrong.

@cannedslime: I pretty much agree with everything you state, except the "racist" part. They are just normal teenagers, griefing ppl they can't communicate with for Lulz.

I actually agree with you. Its just edgy teenagers. But god damn is it infuriating to get the same inhuman treatment time after time.

You know, I hear shit like this all the time but I’ve never experienced it in the 500 hours I’ve played pubg.

The most extreme form of cheating I’ve seen is a few people using no-recoil scripts, and I’ve never had a problem with the behavior of Chinese players. In fact, I’ve gotten to learn a bit of the language to communicate with them, and it’s great fun to try and cross the language barrier. They often reciprocate, I’m kinda sad I might potentially see less of them.

Maybe it’s because I’m on desktop? Who knows...

Perhaps if you live on the east coast, you are unlikely to be put on the same servers as people in South East Asia. Propagation delays make for regional differences in gaming community, even taking VPNs and stuff into account.

As someone who plays in an international server of World of Warcraft with a significant Chinese population, allow me to agree with you.

As an example, I speak languages other than English, but I wouldn't dare speak them in a public channel in the game because I know it's impolite. Chinese players didn't get that memo.

But this is part of the same thing as impolite Chinese tourists, etc. It's a cultural thing.

I don't think so, this looks like the mobile version of PUBG.

Cheating in PUBG is an economic result. It has nothing to do with Chinese people or Chinese culture. You can - or could - make real money farming digital goods in PUBG, and people in China have the bandwidth and computer hardware necessary to make a living doing it.

Cheats are a rational response to the idiotic "loot box" incentives that are popular with game companies that are only able to see 72 hours into the future.

和平精英 shouldn't be translated into Game for Peace, more like Peace-Keeping Elites (connoting an elite military force that will fight to achieve peace). Doublethink accusations in this thread are interesting - when I read the title I immediately knew it was a shooting / battle game. Maybe this is doublethink... maybe this is how Chinese words work, especially in a language where a character can mean 2 or more things.

Peacekeeping means they will fight right? Is it a doublethink to call the UN Peacekeeping force a peacekeeping force if they have guns and stuff?

I don't see any other links with the Chinese Airforce, aside from the Weibo shoutout to 空军招飞局 (Airforce recruiting) on the Weibo post.

I think a lot of what makes the game weird is the combination of fairly realistic characters with such obviously silly animation and gameplay. It's very counter to expectations and makes the game feel very sterilized, if they had gone for something more weird and stylized (like Splatoon) it wouldn't seem strange.

Also if they made a game about UN Peacekeepers shooting people and called it Peace-Keeping Elites it would still be pretty funny to a US audience. They they might be called Peacekeepers but if you made a game about them shooting people and called them that no one would miss the irony of that.

> Last month, the country’s State Administration of Press and Publication released a series of demands for new titles, including bans on corpses and blood, references of imperial history and gambling.

I guess Three Kingdoms Total War won't be available in the country it is based on...

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