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Comment by feministincel | Hacker News Reader

Throwaway for obvious reasons.

I’ve never been in a context where that’s even acceptable. None of my friends pick up women (or are successful) and the only person I know in a long term relationship met his fiancé in middle school.

I dont think it’s Puritanism but it is being risk averse. I know how hard it is for women and how many creeps they do have to deal with so I’d rather not even create the possibility of coming off as one. Add to this the tinderification of the hiring market (see Google’s top 1% of intelligence) and dating scene have put the bottom 80-90% in a bit of a bind because in many large metro areas there are more straight men than women and women are not culturally expected to make the first move. Couple that with increased expectations and lower social cohesion and it becomes...well, expected.

Source - non-homeschooled straight 23 year old, never once asked a girl out.

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I suggest asking some girls out. I had social anxiety and the kind of social skills that lead to an Asperger’s diagnosis and I had more romantic experience than you by the time I was 18.

The chances of a girl being offended by being asked out are relatively low in any case; most people are nice. They’re really, really low if you’re attractive. When an ugly, charmless or poor man asks out a certain kind of girl they’re offended not just at having been asked out, but that the thought even occurred. Most girls aren’t like that. They’ll deflect the question or say that they’re busy and make no effort to reschedule.

My email is in my profile for anyone who has similar problems.

Well I’m not exactly attractive either :) Honestly, putting myself in the type of women I’m most intrigued by i wouldn’t put up with myself.

The closest I got was when I chatted up a girl on a train, but just couldn’t tell if she was just being super polite. Although I did end up getting her LinkedIn... I guess I’m not smooth either.

If you’re not attractive become attractive. If you’re not the kind of person you’d put up with change, become better. If you’re not smooth or confident work on them, they’re learnable skills. Don’t be yourself, that’s a crock of shit those born on third base say, work on becoming better, on becoming someone you respect and who you think is worth dating.

It's not about attractiveness. If a colleague “asks me out” in a work setting unsolicited I'm not more comfortable if they're “attractive”.

This sounds like a scare-story men who feel inadequate like to tell themselves.

If that’s true I’m happy for you. I suggest observing the behaviour of other women to see how they react to similar behaviour from men of different levels of attractiveness. Whether it’s height, fat or just facial symmetry more attractive people, men and women, get away with more in life and go further, faster.

If I said the average man would sooner marry a penniless single mother of three who looked like a super model to an ugly woman with a nice personality would you find it similarly unbelievable?

There is much more to an interaction than someone's appearance. Perhaps “unattractive” men have worse social skills, or are are failing to signal they are not a threat.

There is definitely more to an interaction than someone’s appearance but the number of situations in which it’s irrelevant are quite small, much though we might pretend otherwise. Ugly people have worse lives than beautiful ones, even if we completely ignore romance because people treat them worse.

So one should work on being attractive. Some women put on makeup. Men do other things.

  The chances of a girl being offended by being asked out are relatively low in any case;

Girls are not nice to unattractive men.

I know but they’re not going to hound you out of the bar, at worst they’ll say something mean and the interaction will be over. Also, become more attractive. Getting fit, dressing better and getting better posture or more confidence are available to most everyone healthy.

I don't think you understand. The problem isn't being hounded out of the bar, the problem starts with not being in the bar in the first place. Why go there if all you're going to face is rejection or worse? It's not exactly an exciting place to be and it saps your money. It's easier and safer to stay home, watch porn, and play video games.

Seemingly unending streams of rejection is what dating looks like for everyone. Bars are as boring as cafés. The people you’re with are what they’re for. They make it exciting. If someone prefers to stay home, watch porn and play video games that’s a choice, not a problem.

It might become a problem when a large amount of young men do it. People not invested in society care much less and its future.

Or just use dating apps. The intent is established up front and because of that there is less emphasis on threading social norms.

Dating apps are soul crushing seas of rejection, like dating in general, but worse because you feel like you’re trying when you’re playing with your phone. Given the choice between a mixed sex social activity once a month and dating apps you’re probably better off with the first.

> like dating in general, but worse

In my opinion, yes and no. With dating apps it's only as soul crushing as you let it be. If the person online is not interested, s/he just ignores your message. A rejection in real life, on the other hand, can really sting. Multiple rejections can turn you off trying for good. And they are likely to happen, before you meet someone with whom you hit it off.

I highly recommend trying dating apps, especially if you're not a social butterfly. Just don't take it personally when you get no reply. And be patient, it'll probably take a while to find a good match (just like it would IRL).

> With dating apps it's only as soul crushing as you let it be.

This is how people who go on lots of dates treat dating in general. If you don’t treat a momentary social action as a big deal most people won’t either. Propose a date or make romantic interest clear. Be declined. Move on.

“He/She/It doesn’t like me? Oh well.”

It's pretty discussing to look at dating app data about how women rate 80% of men as below average in attractiveness.[0] Men also get far fewer responses on dating apps.

[0] https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/

Have you bothered to look at the access privileges any given dating app must be granted? Precise location, all contacts, calendar, etc. etc. Use websites, not apps.

> I know how hard it is for women and how many creeps they do have to deal with so I’d rather not even create the possibility of coming off as one.

I wouldn't worry too much about that, women are no different when it comes to creep distribution. We're all the same species after all. Granted, men don't normally get hit upon by women, so female creepiness manifests differently, and at later stages of a relationship. But it doesn't mean it's nonexistent.

> None of my friends pick up women (or are successful) and the only person I know in a long term relationship met his fiancé in middle school.

That sounds like something from another planet. I don't mean to say that I disbelieve you; it's just that it's so different from my personal experience and my social circle that I have a hard time even imagining this. There's just always something happening, meeting someone from Tinder, chatting each other on Twitter (which, I must say, seems to be more hookup-friendly than Tinder even), bumping into people at parties... I mean, sometimes I catch the lonely vibe and don't go out for weeks, but I've never lost this feeling that there's always this life out there, and it happens to everyone who's not in something serious.

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