Mark Zuckerberg Wants to Build WeChat for the West
economist.com
economist.com
Saying Facebook's plans are to become the "WeChat of the west" makes me even more wary. The first thing that I think of when I think of WeChat is "ubiquitous surveillance", especially governmental surveillance.
Widespread norms can become just as powerful. Wait until insurance companies and employers universally require your Facebook account's medical risk and employability assessment ratings.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services
However, as I said, this wouldn't be a dealbreaker. I wouldn't like using it as much, but it would still be better than nothing.
Also, it works without a data connection.
This is why FB chat, whatsapp, etc will never gain the traction that these services do -- putting time and effort into making them work is just a fool's errand until they open up the network to third party clients and make the specs an open standard.
When I hear people say "I'm not on FB", it mostly means "I"m on Instagram". People may know it's the same parent company, but they definitely aren't aware of how deep the integration goes.
And this is a good thing? Not only that, but we're supposed to trust Mark "Privacy This Time" Zuckerberg with something that indispensable?
> “The future is private,” he declared grandiosely.
Nearly 10 years ago, Zuckerberg proclaimed, to paraphrase, that the age of privacy is over. Forgive me if I don't take what he says today seriously at all.
> It could argue that a single dominant social network is easier to police than lots of smaller ones and has greater financial and technical capacity to keep users safe from harmful content.
I'm reassured by this. /s
It's the same old story, but with a new coat of "privacy" paint.
For Zuckerberg, as with mast CEOs, the future is, and always has been, telling potential customers what they want to hear to get them excited about their companies. Nothing conspiratorial about that view either, its part of their job description.
You're right to be leery of anything he says. If only more people wouldn't equate power and fame with trustworthiness.
The executives of a corporation conspiring to mislead the public and conversely it's investors is the very definition of "conspiratorial".
I'm over 50, and the only people I personally know who uses Facebook are business owners.
Nonetheless, I think that you're right. My daughter told me a few years back that "Facebook is for old people and businesses". That gave me hope.
Very true, FB is known as the place where grandma hangs out.
Unfortunately, WhatsApp is known here as "that third world messaging app" so that's not gaining traction anytime soon either.
Most people just iMessage or SMS, with the tech crowd being more on Signal.
Not sure if its relevant for messenger or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if messenger was overly huge for the task its performing.
[0] https://www.slashgear.com/whatsapp-instagram-facebook-messen...
[1] https://www.slashgear.com/facebook-messenger-f8-2019-desktop...
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3074222/facebook-d...
However, could we face a near future scenario where WeChat expands outside of it’s total dominance of China and penetrates One Belt, One Road trade partners?
Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent(WeChat), and Huawei(BATH) are all well integrated into Chinese government/PLA strategy.
Could Zipf’s Law combined with Metcalfe’s Law apply here?
In the global digital geopolitical sense((geodigital?), are we better off with shaping and influencing the US devil we know, than the authoritarian WeChat devil we don’t, and can’t?
To me, this effort by Facebook is just another step in the macro war between geodigital operating systems.
Thoughts?
But isn't there a substantial risk that a centralised authoritarian platform/network could have a 1st place Zipf's Law like distribution with a decentralised/empowered network in a very distant 2nd place?
We should be pushing the sentiment of digital personal security/sovereignty the same way we pushed war material manufacturing during the World Wars.
Tie it to freedom in mainstream media publications, and they'll all come running.
I hope you’re right and I hope it works.
We are up against a well aligned and fused authoritarian juggernaught.
Hopefully the most trusted and best value proposition platform wins.
WeChat is strictly monitored, pervasively censored and rigorously controlled to align with official dogma, stifle rumors, suppress dissent and promote harmony.
The new Facebook would be end-to-end encrypted so Facebook can't read messages even under court order. It will be physically impossible to monitor, censor or control how the platform is used and abused.
Facebook lost control of the monster they created, and this is their solution - abdicate any responsibility whatsoever.
I don't want the WeChat model, or the current Facebook model, or the new Facebook where their toxic waste is externalized to governments and the public to clean up.
These are all anti-patterns.
Well, what do you want? For people to not communicate?
Option 1: 100% state surveillance and control
Option 2: Zero ability for platform operator to reduce the harm their platform inflicts
Option 3: People cannot communicate
Yep, those are the only choices, nothing else is possible.
Considering that FB controls the package distributions for the apps that actually handle the encryption/decryption, and they're all closed-source, it would be hilariously easy for them to be compelled to "forward any message send/received by users in badlist.txt to fbi.gov" or whatever you like. E2E is good, but frankly it doesn't do shit if the provider still controls both endpoints.
Focusing on the technical implementation of e2e is a distraction.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that Facebook actually implements e2e and they really cannot read the cleartext or make it available to fbi.gov.
My argument is that this is a dystopian outcome as bad or worse than WeChat's model of 100% state surveillance and control.
It's a devious way for Facebook to avoid responsibility for the harm its platform amplifies and accelerates.
I admit those features are pretty awesome as it allows businesses to target the exact groups of customer they wanted. It's the holy grail of advertising. Imagine you can just bypass all those who are not interested in your product and only laser target the ones who have intentions to buy.
Having said that, I understand for businesses to have such effective insights, it's reasonable that consumer privacy must be compromised to some degree. We can't have the cake and eat it too. If one agrees to use Facebook they must give up privacy, it's just that simple and I accepted that when I used it.
For Mark Zuckerberg to come out and say they won't peek at your information, that would be dishonest. How are they going to sell ads if they don't have your information?
For Facebook to continue to grow, they must strive to innovate and provide new services that are deemed so valuable by the public that people are willing to give up some of their privacy in exchange for these new services. That's really the only way.
Everyone knows Google does some surveillance on their users too but their services provide very high values to society, people simply can't ignore and not use it.
For me most interesting candidate is Amazon in that space. Would be interesting to see if Amazon will make a move at Facebook eventually - just a matter of time.
So I've zero clue what Zuckerberg thinks is going to happen as far that goes.
The US government already has a say over that [0].
That's exactly what Senate hearings about "terrorist propaganda" and "election interference" on social media are all about [1], applying soft-power to send the message "You deal with this, or we will force you to deal with it", thus nudging these companies into self-regulation.
[0] http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/the-cleaners/
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/5/17823280/facebook-twitter-...
That's not the same as law that makes it past a first amendment challenge.
All based on the patriot act which is still in effect to this day. That's the "beauty" about this: If you make the cause big enough, then barely anybody will mind the eroded civil rights. If you resist, you will be labeled an unpatriotic "terrorist sympathizer" who doesn't want to keep the country safe, a de-facto traitor to the cause.
[0] https://www.eff.org/de/deeplinks/2017/11/nsa-internet-survei...
No matter how you frame this, these constitutional boundaries are not as high as many US Americans like to pretend. Because if those boundaries are not enforced, they ain't worth the paper they are written on, leaving the door wide open to further erode these constitutional rights.
[0] https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a...
How do you think the 1st Amendment is interpreted that they don’t regulate speech of all kinds?
Defamatory speech, libelous speech, commercial speech, noise ordinances, permitting/zoning to limit when and where protests can be held, copyrights/trademarks, speech that interferes with government functions (ie burning drafts cards), advertising restrictions (no advertising tobacco/alcohol to children), regulation of speech of minors by schools and even child pornography are all government regulations of speech.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, but if you're saying the first amendment is not some sort of absolute law, yes I know that.
It's interpretation in the US is still quite broad.
It’s probably the single most extreme example but consider the US drone bombing in Yemen to kill a US citizen...while we don’t know the basis of the decision, because the kill list and threshold to get put on said list is not disclosed, most legal scholars believe the basis for this incident are the deceased’s YouTube videos.
Next step is getting anyone to care, which probably means providing a more useful shopping UI instead of trying to shoehorn it into a chatbot.
If anything, the social media market has proven you can build it but there's no guarantee that the users will come.
We can debate whether Zuckerberg falls in that category!