Repair delays for Tesla owners
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Normal cars and hybrids are mostly an in-and-out kind of thing where the billable hours are fixed/known and you get a real choice in parts. Bilstein vs generic shocks or holly cams for example. With tesla, everything has to come from California. Control arms for example, which i could probably find one that will fit any Tesla, must be shipped from a warehouse certified. This took 5 weeks to deliver and the customer was furious that we would not keep the car in our garage for that long. Luckily they were close to the shop, so we waived a second tow charge and after a seriously long wait for parts, got the vehicle back on the road again.
Tesla sometimes makes you do weird things like ship the old arms/linkage/etc.. back to them. Other times you might need to take pictures expressly for them, or call them after work is completed. Its a serious PITA for a car that could easily just get TRG or Moog aftermarket arms in about 3 days, but if you do, youll lose your "tesla certified" status in a heartbeat.
I could even see people tolerating higher prices (as it is a Tesla, etc) - but that long of a delay is insane. I wonder how many Tesla owners regret their purchase after experiencing a crazy-ass long delay like that.
To be clear: I want Tesla to succeed. However I am also a realist - they have a lot of PR issues that would sink them if they were for example Ford/Chevy/BMW/Mercedes/Audi/etc.
Isn't it strange how often similar posturing appears in comments about Tesla. There aren't any secret SV police that are going to break down your door and take away your "we're saving the world" card if you say something "realist" about Tesla without a disclaimer.
Disclaimer: I also want Tesla to succeed
Disclaimer: I don't give a fig either way whether the company succeeds or fails though I have a very hard time understanding how they can ever maintain their mkt cap.
Musk has pursued an strategy that's built around very aggressive PR. This gives him lower marketing cost and lower cost of capital, so it's a reasonable approach. But he has to take the bad with the good. That includes critical articles as well as the many fawning ones.
Name any other automaker that makes claims like these about their automatic cruise control: "the person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself."[1]
[1] https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/05/23/49...
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/15/ford-plans-a-ride-sharing-se...
https://corporate.ford.com/articles/autonomous-technology/au...
Tesla thinks they can get there faster by a year.
Again, here is what Tesla claimed:
> "the person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself."
Ford has never made a claim that spurious and dangerous like Tesla has.
There are definitely major issues and growing pains with Tesla but I don't think these issues are as common as stories like this are making them out to be. If that was actually the case, you'd see hundreds of these stories popping up. Additionally, I think the situation might be way worse for Silicon Valley just because of the sheer numbers of Teslas in use in that area. The rest of the country is probably not as backed up and strained as that.
Which really puzzles me is that a high density of cars in one small region would cause these problems. In that case you can concentrate all kinds of parts locally without any inventory risks. You can have short delivery times for these parts due to the short distance. And you can build a dense network of repair shops as the demand is there. If you fail already at that, imagine to do the same in places with a lit less Teslas on the road and larger distances to your distribution centers. All this are things other OEMs figured out a long time ago.
And no offense, but your experience is one data point and anecdotal. While true numbers will be impossible to come by, countering the article with a sample of size of one doesn't help.
This is the same (in kind, though not in degree) as Slashdot a decade ago where you could not praise Windows, unless you first declared your allegiance by saying, "I love Linux but" or "I don't like Windows but".
One conclusion from all this is that I discount criticism of AMP or Google, or certain other topics that have become sacred cows. Not ignore, just discount.
Consumer Reports ranks Tesla #27 out of 29 manufacturers on reliability, and removed its recommendations for their cars. Several other surveys have similarly put Tesla's reliability dead last or nearly there.
With hundreds of thousands more Teslas hitting the road, all those service visits—along with repair work—have reportedly backed up the company's service centers. Now the company has reportedly put an end to those extended service plans and is hoping instead to highlight electric cars' inherent reliability—and hopefully reduce the wait times at those service centers.
> But reliability has been a weak spot for Tesla. According to our survey results, problems with the suspension, especially with the 2017 model year, have been an issue for the Model S luxury sedan, while hardware problems—especially concerning its unique falcon-wing doors—have plagued the Model X SUV (neither is currently recommended by CR). And now our latest survey data has surfaced numerous problems reported by Model 3 owners as well, which is why CR has removed its recommendation for the vehicle.
And as it happens, CR do recognise that engine and powertrain problems are much rarer:
> By contrast, CR members have reported few problems with Tesla’s unique electric powertrains, which may be due in part to their relative simplicity when compared with traditional internal-combustion engines
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...
Reliability doesn’t measure maintenance. A Toyota Prius is more reliable than a Chrysler 200 because of the quality of engineering, assembly and components.
I worked on a Toyota issue and was amazed at how quickly a broad could-be-anything code became « when you get that, 99% of the time it’s X ».
If you add up to 5 weeks to your repair time due to logistics that is a big issue. And again one coming from the supply chain domain, as do production hell and distribution hell. And al of that has nothing whatsoever to do with Tesla's being EVs.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/10/24/tesla-...
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...
https://www.businessinsider.com/survey-uk-drivers-say-tesla-...
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27725/tesla-fleet-company-stru...
Just how you want to run a robo-taxi business with these issues is everybody's guess.
I'm also kind of disappointed that repairability isn't an EV marketing point, as electrical systems are easy to work on and diagnose compared to mechanical systems. Oh well, maybe the USA and China go to war then repairing and building becomes an American patriotic virtue
There are also a host of other non engine related things that plague older vehicles like AC, power doors/windows, etc.
Or does the lower vibration change that aspect?
What I really want is dynamic suspension that adjusts based on location. We already have cars going over every road: we could measure where the pot holes are or where the road is smooth.
I'm not sure I agree with that. ICEs have a culture of DIY repairs. Sure, that could develop around electrics and hybrids, but HV electrical systems are dangerous. I'd say they are much more dangerous than ICEs.
Everything is dangerous. Gasoline is a volatile liquid carcinogen that bursts into flames when exposed to temperatures that numerous parts of the vehicle operate at, unless it evaporates first, in which case it explodes. An ICE engine block weighs several hundred pounds and can crush you to death. If you repair your brakes or steering improperly you may first discover it as your vehicle sails through a red light at a busy intersection or swerves out of control into oncoming traffic. If you stick your hand into a fan or belt and then it starts moving, you may no longer have a hand. Or an arm. Or enough remaining blood to stay conscious and call for help.
There are ten thousand ways for idiots to kill themselves. But most people are not idiots, and have a strong personal incentive not to get themselves killed, which means that none of them are a justification for prohibiting people from repairing their own property.
Most of them operate around 400v, which isn't super dangerous (touch it, and it might kill you, but there's also a good chance you'll survive).
They also have far more protection subsystems than a typical house or factory. For example, if you cut into a high voltage wire in a car and touch it with wet fingers, the battery contactor will disconnect before you can touch the other wire to cause a fatal current.
That's my take. Good for them for taking such a huge chance and seeing an opportunity to take a chance on technology that is just now becoming practical.
But...I can't see any reason why Toyota won't squash them like a bug in the low and medium end car biz once EV technology becomes a bit better and their adoption is more mainstream. It's a heckuva business to try to make a profit in in any case.
I am, really, only a casual observer, so can someone tell me if this means anyone can use their battery tech, and whatever else is important?
1. https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-y...
The Hyundai Kona EV comes with 400Km (more than the base model 3) of range with a liquid cooled pack very similar in design to the model 3.
And it's 0-60 is < 1s slower despite being a front wheel drive CUV rather than a sporty, RWD sedan.
Yes I'm aware that Tesla has more tech in the Model S, X, and upcoming roadster but they can't laugh off other EV's like they did with the Leaf. Other manufacturers _are_ making progress and I hope Tesla keeps it together to lead the charge (pun intended).
As of January the Leaf was still the best selling electric car model in history.
edit: Source from February with data through 2018. If ~200,000 more Model 3s than Leafs have been delivered this year, then it is the new leader. https://qz.com/1552840/the-most-successful-ev-model-to-date-...
But technology wise Tesla is quite a bit ahead. The Leaf originally had abysmal range (better now) and doesn't have the pack longevity due to its passive cooled design. This also limits the amount of power it can produce/consume leading to lower regen efficiency, slower charging, and worse performance.
My comment above was trying to point out that the Kona is a good example of that gap being closed by yet another competitor on the EV scene.
A. Chinesium crap that is worse than OEM
B. Fair OEM replacement (often same toll manufacturer as OEM)
C. Improved quality and/or design to OEM, often to overcome a design oversight (see: Porsche IMS bearings, premium suspension dampers)
A healthy aftermarket will have all three available, however it is easy for uninformed (and informed) drivers to wind up with A. Understandable why Tesla would want to avoid that even if theirs isn't a perfect solution.
Seems like their perfect solution is less than perfect.
The good thing about those cheap parts is they don’t try to pretend to be good parts, they’re “You get what you pay for” exemplified.
So if a Tesla certified shop can fix a Tesla with a reputable aftermarket part (which they do for non-Teslas already) why not allow it?
It makes sense as long as the PR machine generates new customers faster than their operations teams piss off old ones.
It’s also one of the big reasons Tesla fought so hard against normal franchised car dealerships. They can save money by providing shitty service and don’t need to worry about dealers making noise about Tesla issues or dealers telling them to piss off.
I’d venture to guess that Model 3 waiting list folks who just got screwed won’t be very happy. ( https://electrek.co/2019/03/04/tesla-owners-protest-price-cu... )
Sounds like things went bad in 2017. Surveys tend to lag 2-3 years.
If Tesla requires mechanics to use Tesla-made parts, then Tesla should provide those parts in a reasonable amount of time. This isn't rocket science. Every mainstream (i.e. not Ferrari) car company is able to do it.
I've never heard of anyone waiting months for a suspension part for a BMW 3-series or an Audi A4 or a Mercedes C-class, all of which compete in the same price bracket as the Model 3.
b) Plenty of new cars come onto the market and I've never heard of any, ever needing to wait a year for parts.
c) If you take it to a non-certified shop it ceases to be Tesla Certified which would mean a big hit to resale value.
Anyways, I own two Ferraris but these are like good 1985 Burgundy - you dont drink it you collect it. I plan to sell both in next 10 years at 130% markup with very small millage, less than 1000 miles (usually me and wife do a round around a city once a quarter)
Laborginis are rich mans way of showing he loves throwing money away. No self-made or self-respected wealthy businesman would get one, the millage is irrelevant and they don’t get more expensive withing the time. Basketball and football players love them. Parts are cheap and plenty. Ferraris take so long to fix because collectors barely drive them abd even less often get them crashed.
Meanwhile Ferrari chased the stuffy old money, the old people that didn't have Lamborghini 'larger than life' style but neded the proverbial male body extension. So long as they were the right class (upper) Ferrari was okay to sell to them, he didn't want to see 'common scum' like Mr Lamborghini driving his creations.
Although VW have done great things with the Lamborghini brand and made the cars desirable to those you disparage, the fact that so many parts are shared with Audi and even SEAT cars changes matters when it comes to parts availability - you can get them.
As for those Ferrari cars and what the brand stands for there is a lot to take on board. The Formula 1 side is still a mobile billboard for fags, even if the 'Marlb*ro' logo is subliminal in the West, in developing markets this sponsorship deal is selling the coffin nails nicely. Then there are the chintzy theme parks and the toy/keyfob business. I know everyone has an inner nine year old to appeal to but I don't see how Enzo would have liked this distraction from the racing passion.
As for the resale market and this matter of appreciation in prices. Ferrari are a glorified 'Franklin Mint' these days, it is all about artificial scarcity. The Ferraris that have real value go on the track at Goodwood and Silverstone - doing so is very much part of the pedigree and they do get bashed about a bit. A 1960's 275 or other icon of the brand sees the track and has storied heritage - the people that drive them being real drivers. New 'designed for speculator' Ferraris might appreciate but they don't have intrinsic historical value. People in the Arabian Peninsula and the United States who have more money than taste buy them for the garage and never drive them to the edge in order to win a race.
Technologically the cars have also lost a bit of the lustre. The whole business was based on selling V12 engines which no longer works. If it is petrol power you want then the McLaren cars have the race winning innovation these days whether in the engine bay or the carbon fibre tub. Take away the prancing horse and the design isn't iconic really, on a scale of one to 'Testarossa' a modern Ferrari is nowhere near.
I am not sure that owning a vast quantity of Ferrari cars gives someone a particularly unvarnished viewpoint. Taxi drivers think the Prius is the best car ever for monetary return on investment but that doesn't make them experts.
For a long time antiques were a good investment, people sold them in rings, the things forever going up in value. Then IKEA came along and fashions changed - chintz was chucked out. The problem with the not-so-classic car market (recent supercars) is that four door saloons from the Tesla company provide the instant acceleration thrill that is so much more appealing than noisy exhausts. There is major danger that once EV takes over nobody is going to be interested in the heritage-less garage queen cars that were only bought by rich people for investment potential. You won't be able to drive them in cities due to emissions, so they won't even have utility value.
Anyway, good on the Lamborghini owners for living the dream that Mr Lamborghini innately understood.
The standards for mass market are different -- people expect to drive their cars daily and expect maintenance and repairs to be relatively painless. Most mass-market manufacturers are able to make that happen. Why can't Tesla?
The only context I can imagine is a dealership selling a used car as "certified pre-owned" or similar (that's BMW's term, others have their own). That means they provide a warranty with the used car, have inspected it, etc. So I suppose, in theory, Tesla could claim that if you get the car repaired by a non-certified shop, they will not in the future take your car in as a 'certified' vehicle for sale, which only means that your resale value when selling the car back to Tesla, assuming they do such a thing is lower.
As far as I know, due to Magnusson-Moss, the manufacturer cannot require that you service the vehicle at their facility or a "certified" facility. Of course, if you have sub-par work done, or parts installed, they can refuse future warranty claims if those subsequent claims were a result of sub-par work or parts.
This isn't to say that manufacturers can't try to make it hard on you if you don't do what they want you to do. But, all that said, I still feel that (c) is a point without meaning.
But I read this and I wonder if they're really thinking it through, or doing any modeling of their business. From your description they seem to be doing everything they can do to gum up their own works.
I don't see why that should be the case, given it's 2019. Tesla could, if it's a warranty repair, just authorise the OEM to send the spare part directly to the customers mechanic. If it's out of warranty, authorise the mechanic to establish a relationship with the OEM. Telsa could see have a view in the which spares when in to which car via communications with the OEM.
Training and certifying mechanics to install them is a separate thing, since you must also prepare sufficient trainers and certifiers. This not an instantaneous process. There are two stocks with dependent flow rates.
Incumbents don't feel this as acutely because they have dealer networks on top of many independent mechanics.
I can’t see there being anything fundamentally different about Tesla repairs. Many mechanical workshops also employ or engage automotive electricians, so the cross-skill collaboration for the electronics side of the Tesla already exists in the industry. Also, mechanics have been servicing the Prius for years, so they’re not totally unfamiliar with electric vehicles.
I don’t know how the dealer networks help? By all accounts here in Australia the dealers employ none to very few of the good mechanics, rather they’ve all left for higher pay / better conditions elsewhere.
Maybe I’m wrong about my pondering above, but my larger point of getting parts swiftly to the repairer certainly couldn’t make things worse.
For sure. No need for a single cause.
to be fair, mazda had the same requirements when my dealership was making engine repairs on my mx5 ... in their case, there was something wrong and they were actively trying to get to the bottom of the failures. i can understand if tesla were doing the same thing: tracking failure modes of specific parts.
Weird to say the least. Normal car shops get spare parts at least once a day, bigger car shops even several times a day, even parts they ordered just that day. Five weeks for a replacement part?!
I'd imagine both.
Tesla's logistics seem to 'lose' cars on a regular basis, and I doubt they have a much better process for parts. I bet rather than a nice automated logistics and inventory management system they have a bunch of people with phones and spreadsheets.
They also probably have production issues with parts. Simply saying "produce 5 percent additional parts for repairs" is hugely expensive, and not normally doesn't actually solve the problem. Some parts are far more likely to fail than others, and you can't really be sure beforehand.
Oh - that part which is likely to fail? Do you want to put a big order in and make a bunch more to cover repairs, or do you want to stop production entirely, get an engineer to redesign the part, retool to make the new part, and restart production, with a slow ramp up? And now that you've had some downtime, are you going to prioritize new cars or repairs?
Took 5 months to get my 2016 Model S back after I was hit.
I loved this car, but frankly I never again want to deal with them. Cancelled my Model 3 order, and now tell everyone that asks me about the car to stay away.
This was a lease, and my wife and I did not get another after the lease return. Definitely makes me hesitant about getting another.
Interestingly I haven’t seen one thread about this on r/Tesla over on reddit. They completely pray at the altar of Musk.
I've been to the Dedham and Watertown MA service centers about a dozen times in the last four years. I've never had to wait more than 2 minutes on the phone or at the counter. I have had a couple emails get lost, but after a bump or two I got the answers I needed.
Appointments do book out a few weeks, but scheduling is pretty easy (especially now that it's all online). The one time something urgent came up with my car, they took me without an appointment, and even put me in a rental car since they were out of loaners.
I've never had service anywhere near that good when I had a Toyota or a Subaru.
If you look at what the people who sell motor oil recommend, it's 7500 to 10000 miles between oil changes. E.g. here: http://www.elf.com/en/advice-corner/synthetic-oil-faq/synthe...
Some manufacturers are specifying 25k - 30k km these days
And I do in fact change engine oil myself. Undo one bolt to drain, take off the filter and install a new one, refill oil. Takes 30 minutes including some time for having a beer while you wait for the last bit to drain.
It's almost as easy as changing out your windshield wipers and refilling washer fluid. My point is, it makes zero sense to include basic stuff like this in a discussion on reliability.
I refer to the maintenance schedule of the vehicle manufacturer, which specifies an interval much less than 30k km in most cases. I replace synthetic oil every 8k km. I was referring to the time interval in my previous comment which is max 6 months for synthetic.
I am aware changing oil is easy. I do it myself during the summer months (I don't have a garage). My vehicle is from 2011 also.
Keep in mind that most people recommend changing synthetic oil every 6 months, even Edmunds.com which you mentioned earlier (ctrl+F '6 months', https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/oil-change-truths...)
https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/when-should-you-chan...
If I had a Prius I might change my oil every year. I instead follow the manufacturer (Ford) provided service schedule for my car. I have a feeling the 15 year old station wagon I commented regarding at the beginning of this thread is closer to my car than a Prius.
Using a Prius maintenance schedule to be representative of the last 30 years of ICE cars doesn't make sense, you might as well compare with a lawn mower at that point.
Maybe if you own a Tesla or a luxury car, you're falling behind on that schedule. But nearly all consumer cars sold in the past 3 decades only require about 1 service trip a year, and that includes changing oil. (See https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tips-advice/stop-changing-y...)
Simply not true, and the linked article doesn't support that statement either.
Try looking at a maintenance schedule for a Corolla or a Camry here: https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/my-toyota/maintenance-schedu....
Recommended is a very different thing from required. The recommended maintenance schedules calls for servicing before any meaningful wear and tear on maintained parts/systems. Essentially, you're always getting them cleaned or replaced so their close to new. This is great for optimum performance but it's also incredibly wasteful and unnecessary. It's the equivalent of replacing your RAM and video card every year. Sure, you're always getting top-of-the-line performance, but if you're just playing the sims and using MS Word, why are you wasting the money?
Also, engine sludge is generally the result of contamination from water seepage or more commonly your oil not getting hot enough to burn off moisture (usually the result of too many short trips in the winter), so if you're changing oil to prevent sludge buildup you're just addressing the symptom and not the underlying problem or misuse.
Not sure why you think that failing to change oil will not cause sludge build up, google 'engine sludge' and every result will say the most common cause is failing to change oil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge
> Oil sludge that causes an engine to run poorly or even seize is a rare occurrence and typically happens only when oil changes have been neglected or if the car has been driven extensively with an extremely low oil level.
> Ways to minimize sludge production and accumulation include performing frequent oil changes, performing mechanized engine flushing or de-sludging, using synthetic oil,[1] and following the manufacturer's engine maintenance routine.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/car-parts-and-acces...
> While sludge often results from poor upkeep, notably not changing the oil at prescribed intervals, some engines appear more prone to sludge buildup than others.
> My own car was repaired in a "relatively short" two weeks.
>> No that's "very short." Ours took 6 months.
>>> Mine took 3.5 months!
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/bjhimk/san_fra...
I scheduled service through the app, got there on time and out with my car in less than one hour.
Tesla is doing something nearly impossible. I'm not surprised it's having difficulties here. It has always been the case that failure is a serious possibility.
Not only is starting a car company hard, but an electric car company is especially hard. Margins are so thin in carmaking in general, that you depend on scale to make things like maintenance doable.
With gas prices low and EV credits disappearing, the natural outcome of all these pressures when fossil fuels are not paying for their externalities is that the electric car maker will fail.
And unfortunately, it's not like other electric car makers in the US are doing any better. EVs tend to be a loss-leader (halo cars or compliance cars) for traditional manufacturers. GM ended their Volt production. And my experience on Volt forums is that it's incredibly hard to get dealers to service electric cars because they also don't have qualified staff. And that's for vehicles that can take advantage of the GM ecosystem for things that aren't powertrain related. I own a Volt and a Leaf. The Leaf also has had many issues with powertrain maintenance (more than Tesla) in spite of using a very similar vehicle platform to the traditional vehicles Nissan produces.
I look at those saying we have to pull out all stops to address 1.5 degrees C of climate warming, and then I look at our utter failure to pass meaningful federal measures to support electrification of transport, even letting our previous ones expire while China takes enormous strides in standing up their electric vehicle industry... It's as if we literally don't care. We're just going to let the American electric car industry fail. In fact, several states are passing and have passed extra taxes on electric vehicles in order to "compensate" for lost gas tax revenue (although basically universally over-estimating how many miles EV owners drive per year, thus actually taxing them HIGHER than gas drivers).
...and considering all that (Losing a $7500 credit and gas prices now about $6000 less over the life of the car compared to a few years ago), I actually think Tesla is doing fairly well. They're going to have to quickly expand beyond America, though, because we are failing them.
EDIT: Rivian is in a similar boat. Their products look amazing, but they're starting from scratch in a low-margin business at a time of low gas prices. Hopefully both Rivian and Tesla can make it. But without the support from the federal government like firms in Europe and especially China, it's quite possible both will fail.
Less government.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/best-electric-cars-an...
b) Rivian has the backing of Ford who will be using their platform for future pickup models. Don't lump them in with Tesla who truly started from scratch.
b) Very similar to Tesla being invested in by Toyota and Daimler in the beginning, with Tesla then providing powertrains for the Rav4 EV and the Smart EV and Mercedes B-Class. Rivian IS developing their vehicles from scratch like Tesla did with Model S, and that's why Rivian's vehicles will be fantastic (if they can execute, which I suspect they can). However, Tesla really ought to partner with more carmakers and provide their excellent powertrains like they once did. Both Tesla and Daimler are apparently open to it and are in talks: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/07/daimler-ceo-tesla-mercedes-t...
...it also increases charging infrastructure costs.
I think this was a big mistake by Tesla. I don't expect Rivian to repeat it.
I visited an Audi store in Paris in Q3 2018, the only one in Europe that was showing the e-Tron at that time (which I was interested in). Guess what? The store manager himself told me not to buy the car. For bullshit reasons, of course, but his actual motives was that the company currently loses money on EV... Considering that Audi has full control the production and selling price, imagine how a dealership intend to sell the car that don't contribute to meaningful profit when they can try and sell "comparable" ICE?
Doubling my commute time for months would drive me nuts.
I hope an infusion of cash is going to help the parts department and decrease the latency around parts getting built.
I hope that the new insurance business they are getting into will take this into account: I'd pay extra to have my insurance give me an exact same loaner with the same "carpool friendly" characteristics while my car is in the shop. When insurance companies are on the hook to pay for a rental during repairs, they tend to ensure that the repairs don't take too long, as they have an incentive to minimize their rental costs: that's a good thing because it means the incentives are aligned with the customer.
I don't know if the whole sticker option will disappear after 2023, but if it is still available then the "trade in" option will still be viable. It's expensive, though (not unlike a lease actually, since you end up selling/buying with a periodicity of about 3-4 years).
Thanks for giving me another reason to hate this company. It's not easy anymore but it turns out there is always something new if you read enough of these threads.
That strikes me as similar to the subsidy that Tesla got. It's a reasonable thing to do so that we start shifting away fossil carbon, but it should expire in short order.
[1] https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5178956,-122.2656497,107m/da...
They are swimming in wrecked or poorly put together Model S/3s.
His accounts match the tone of the article, though Chilton experiences it to a lesser extent since they're so close to the Tesla mothership.
On the other hand, my Model 3 has needed critical servicing for the last 6 months but they haven't received the parts in yet (I also live next to the factory in Fremont).
It can be a hassle, but they are a young car company and I'm willing to put up with beta testing their cars because I want the company to succeed and I do still prefer their products compared to anything else on the market.
This would never fly for any other car companies.
Once more, it confirms to me that people buy a Tesla as a symbol//cult more than as a vehicle. Teslafans want to be recognized as those next level earth-friendly yuppies socialites. And it really scares me to see how many here go blindly with it.
One of my neighbors took out the passenger side mirror on my model S (knocked the whole assembly clean off). It took about a week to get the replacement parts, but once the parts were in, we scheduled a time for them to come out and fix it in the parking lot next to my apartment. No driving halfway across town to a dealership, waiting around, or having to arrange transportation to pick my car back up. A similar repair for my BMW would have consumed at least half a day of my time - this took 5-10 minutes at most. (And the tech was way more friendly and knowledgeable than anyone I've ever dealt with at a dealership.)
If you are a bit higher income / time is money type of person or situation, lack of parts avail for repair (and the time /hassle that causes) and/or an inability to get at home EV charging would be the only two reasons not to get a tesla I think.
I am very grateful for folks who have flagged this up. If you hate getting the service runaround on car repairs (waste of time / etc) then the heads up we are getting on this is critical really.
Currently drive an Audi - obviously planned on going to Tesla but holding off until this get's sorted.
Is taking days normal or reasonable for car maintenance? I've never had my conventional car in for maintenance for more than about six hours.
I've also had situations where an issue was discovered during regular maintenance and Honda again asked to keep the car and rectify the problem under warranty. In that case it was a cracked engine block and they said "that's not suppose to happen". It took a few days to fix.
I've had this as well with Honda and Mercedes cars. When it comes to utilitarian cars, one thing you want to look for is the parts being as much a commodity as possible.
Mercedes used to stock all the parts for what seemed like all of their models. Then they stopped. I should have taken that as a sign!
While I'd like a Model 3 (although not at the 45.000E pricetag for the cheapest model like it is today) I will wait until they can also offer good service after they make the sale.
The local Honda dealer told me they don't have loaners, but it's in a cluster of dealers that has an Enterprise agency.
My "loaners" have all been rentals from their Hendricks Collision center.
There's only three models of Tesla! Can't they keep a stock?
Our Model 3 was in the shop for a couple of days over new year's weekend while they did a few small repairs, including replacing the entire rear glass (which was actually in stock).
Also, had the rear quarter window smashed in and it took me a few days to find a glass shop that had the part in stock. Most shops said they could get it, but they have to drive to the Tesla service center to get an answer on ETA, due to issues manning the phones.
Owners were in accidents and needed urgent repairs. They took the vehicles to Tesla Authorized (but not Tesla) repair centers. Those repair centers had issues getting parts.
The experience is totally different than scheduled maintenance.
We had an issue with the dash panel on ours and scheduled an appointment with Tesla for work under warranty. They asked for pictures and made sure the part was on hand when we showed up. They swapped it out in under an hour and offered us a loaner or Lyft ride in the mean time.
Also, scheduled maintenance took a couple of days? I get antsy when I have to wait more than a couple of hours.
When I had a car I wouldn't expect it to be away for more than a day unless it was having extensive work done.
Most things like regular servicing, fixing niggles it's a case of drop it off in the morning and pick it up later in the day.
I live in Silicon Valley and Teslas are everywhere. I know quite a few people who own them, and they all complain about reliability -- primarily software problems. If all of the Teslas on the road are as unreliable as the ones my friends own, there is probably a long line of owners waiting for service.
It's been a topic for a very long time, not just repair delays, but basic maintenance needing to be scheduled months out.
A few years ago I had to do some work on the suspension of my car (replace 2 springs) and everything was done in about 4-6 hours, including the regular checks and some other minor stuff. It took about 2h for the parts the mechanic ordered next to me to arrive. One acquaintance with a Model S waited ~10-12 days for more or less the same kind of work (he could still drive the car but still). And that's because we're in a region with easy access to anything, especially auto-related.
Yeah. We could call them dealerships, of which there are none for Tesla. I hear that's part of the reason they can get away with not releasing diagnostic tools, parts, etc. to third parties.
I'm not sure it's a matter of "getting away". I would have thought it's in their interest to offer a solid support network after sale. I wonder if the tight control is due to not having enough capacity to make enough (spare) parts.