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Comment by darkestloud | Hacker News Reader

Consumers prefer to use credit cards, for many reasons one of which is points.

False. More Americans use debit than credit for everyday purchases.[1]

[1] https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/credit-debit-su...

Most Americans are also financially illiterate. For every day purchases (not cash advances), it is always better to use a credit card that offers rewards points... as long as you plan on paying off your full balance every month. It's free money, period.

That's something only the minority of the population does, though.

"...average individual credit card debt stands at $5,331 in 2019. Additionally, on a monthly basis, most Americans don't pay their credit card balance in full every month - 55% don't regularly pay in full."

https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/credit-cards/aver...

Forgive me if I don't take a blog quoting "CreditDonkey.com" as its only source very seriously on this.

It’s like the mirror image of gambling. You get a little money constantly and if you are (un)lucky, you lose a lot. I’m not really interested in playing someone’s rigged financial game for chump change.

Not really. Assuming you never over extend yourself by spending more than you have, you never lose anything.

First, that's a survey (no actual usage data). Secondly, that differs from what consumers with a choice use. Many poor don't have credit cards; many more have impaired credit.

> one of which is points

Citation needed. I hate points.

Rewards would have been a more general term that still captures the meaning.

I get a flat 2% back on literal everything. I agree that points would be a pain, but extra cash is nice. (I know this functionally means everything is x% more expensive, something something tragedy of the commons externalities blah blah blah.)

> I know this functionally means everything is x% more expensive

Exactly! I hate all rewards systems because they wouldn't be offering it if it weren't a scam. If you don't know who the fish is, it's you.

The "scam" is on everyone who doesn't have a rewards card. The increased interchange fees are shared by everyone, with reward card users reaping the benefit.

Yeah, I use Costco's "Citi Visa" card for exactly that reason. I'd still be charged the %, and at least this way I get the most useful thing /for me/ back as a reward.

That's the why I want a system that completely bypasses the insanity that are current credit/debit cards and goes directly to a modern approach (but isn't some blockchain, kill the planet with mining power, fad).

I wonder which card gives you this benefit?

citi double cash back or something like that

You hate free money? Points are exactly that, as long as you pay off your credit card every month.

The point is at that all merchant end up adding the 3% in their margin so what you buy is more expensive. You just lose if you don’t use points but, you aren’t actually gaining anything.

You're contradicting yourself. Since everyone is paying that extra 3%, by not getting the rewards / points you're at a disadvantage.

No, it's you who, by supporting their toxic industry, are making things worse for everyone. c.f. Tragedy of the Commons. What you're advocating is a slave mentality.

The people paying ~20% interest are slaves. For some, they have no choice and I sympathize with those.

I pay off my bill every month. I pay no interest, no fees, and get free stuff for it. You should do the same.

It's not free. They take the enormous margin they get off the sellers and kick you back a few peanuts. Essentially, the sellers pay a tax, and you get a small distribution of the tax, and as a result all products are more expensive.

Points are useless.

The products are going to be more expensive for everyone. Would you rather have a card that offers 2% rewards points or one that doesn't offer any? You are obviously better getting the points.

I understand how it works. I'm taking a bigger picture view and saying that if nobody had points, everything would be cheaper than if you had gotten the points in the first place.

Obviously in the current climate, a card that offers points is going to be more competitive than a card that doesn't, but that doesn't mean that points aren't a mind-bogglingly stupid proposition to begin with.

Yet those sellers don't offer their own discount or cashback for not using credit cards.

Yes they do. Gas stations have a Cash Price for not using a credit card. The ones who don't are just pocketing the difference because so many people don't think about what they're paying for.

I don't need yet another minigame to manage in my life, thanks but no.

There's nothing to manage.

And protections.

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