How ironic that despite the continued protests against picture ID cards based on privacy concerns, the UK is the most watched country based on the number of CCTV cameras per square mile, and now this.
How ironic that despite the continued protests against picture ID cards based on privacy concerns, the UK is the most watched country based on the number of CCTV cameras per square mile, and now this.
It's because people have given up hope of winning the war against the surveillance state but they still feel like they can opportunistically win a few battles.
Let's just say that it wasn't just a picture ID card; it was the camel's nose under the tent flap for a massively intrusive national database system with huge potential for misuse, abuse, and creeping changes of scope.
Today the UK has a de-facto biometric authentication system in the shape of the Identity and Passport Office database and the DVLA driing license database: between these, there's roughly 90% coverage of the adult population. But because it's opt-in and voluntary, and the police can't at any moment challenge you to produce a card and arrest you instantly if you're not carrying it, it hasn't produced the same push-back.
(As for those CCTV cameras? Most of them are in private premises, subject to GDPR data sharing restrictions. It's actually illegal for a shop CCTV system to cover the pavement outside, for example. The police only have access to them when a crime has been reported and half of them aren't working, as my wife discovered when her bicycle was stolen from right under a cluster of them …)
All of the Windrush fiasco and other Home Office outrages show that the UK is pretty comfortable with bureaucratic authoritarianism so long as they think it only applies to immigrants.
There was a popular campaign against the government keeping around the hand written, cardboard ww2 National ID cards on civil liberties grounds. They didn't even all have photos, and were super easy to forge! Attlee had kept them around throughout the Labour administration and proposed using them, and this will sound oh so familiar to anyone who remembers the Blair attempts at an ID card and database, as a "a key that could be used to access all the benefits of the state, from rationing to voting to NHS services". The chief Law Lord in the final appeal said of requiring "all and sundry" to produce ID cards that it "inclines them to obstruct the police instead of to assist them".
It was ultimately Churchill's second term that repealed them in the early 50s. The same decade a Conservative politician and lawyer drafted the first European Convention on Human Rights.
Same old arguments, 70 years on. I'm not sure those Tories would recognise today's bunch though. :)
Do you have a source for that, please? I've been wondering about this kind of issue for a long time, as a lot of private premises now have cameras obviously overlooking public space outside or even more private areas like the gardens of neighbouring properties. Personally I find that quite intrusive in terms of the public spaces and rather inappropriate in terms of neighbouring private spaces, but given the many ambiguities in our data protection and privacy laws, it's not obvious to me what would make it illegal in black and white. Both the UK government web site and the ICO do have specific guidance about domestic CCTV systems that clearly allows the possibility of and provides guidance for systems that overlook areas outside the operator's own property.
Non-photo UK driving licenses are in fact still legal [0] although they are not now issued. If you need a replacement or update (e.g. on address change) the new license will be the photo version. They are still valid for hire car.
If I need photo ID I use my passport. I do not therefore have an official photo-based identity document on me when travelling routinely in the UK.
Neither do I - there's no requirement to carry your driving licence whilst driving.
As for the UK being the most watched CCTV density - well - have you seen the quality of most of those CCTV's, egads. Just look at some of the images the UK police release which have been pulled from CCTV. Very rare that their is ever anything that would stand up in court. Then most of these CCTV are private, mostly shops.
So yes, we may (not sure if still have) the most per square mile, but darn - the quality on so many is terrible. But then, older camera's and the rush to be first often does that. Beijing on the other hand, now that's a CCTV network I dare say who could tell you were you lost your house keys in the park if so inclined.
But we British do excel at irony. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Situational_irony_-_Baker...
It's not like its all state surveillance.
The same in Germany with taxes, people discuss increasing taxes for the rich, who are happy to confront this, because the real deal in Germany is not paying taxes, not paying social security and health insurance by the rich.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10242694.2011.6...
I am very sure, inspecting phones has, or will at some point in future be used to stop some crime or terrorist attack, but that's not the point here.
I lost one of my ex-school mates in an market-place explosion (2005 Delhi bombing). While the London Bombing suspects were identified, all suspects in the Delhi bombing that same year were released due to "lack of evidence".
I am completely in favor of surveillance of public property.
Below I have linked real posters and not satire - unless their graphic designers are covertly revolting in protest.
https://p10.secure.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/ssl/spook...
They were identified. After they’d blown themselves up on trains and a bus. The one person ‘identified’ as it was happening was in fact mistakenly identified and killed by the police.
Surveillance only helps in situations like this where the authorities have intelligence upfront. Even then you can argue that regular on-foot surveillance is a more proportionate approach over serveilling the entire nation ‘just in case’.
I was in London when the bombs went off (I worked on Russel Square along from the bus bomb - I would walk past the site, every day, to and from work; and have a friend who was on the train going from Liverpool St that was blown up). And, I remember being nearby (and hearing) the IRA bomb in Bishopsgate. I still believe very strongly that governments should not have carte blanche rights to spy on all citizens. Privacy is more valuable
Binney had the answer.
Just the presence of surveillance alone discourages criminals from acting in the first place. Without any surveillance, I don't think criminal activity will increase by just .000001%.
When it comes to cyberspace, digital surveillance, I fled Windows for Linux and read /r/StallmanWasRight. Bad stuff happens in cyberspace, but none of it is meaningful enough to me to warrant the limitations to privacy that we endure IRL.
Does anyone else have this arbitrary configuration of opinions?
What's this based on?
From a quick google, it seems there isn't a clear consensus that this is the case.
Do you disagree that pervasive surveillance would make it easier for an oppressive government to collect data on their opponents and imprison or harass them? The East German Stasi didn’t have the advantage of universal surveillance and they did a great job of suppressing political opposition. Do you think their job would have been easier or harder with pervasive logging of all conversations conducted electronically or in public or private spaces?
Good god, reading that was horrifying. What a bunch of thugs on that police force. Absolutely disgraceful.
But it didn't prevent the bombing
Oh Gosh. It's been years since I owned a car, but I've been merrily hiring them here and abroad two or three times a year. I'm a bit surprised that no one has denied me a vehicle as a result :\
Thanks for the heads up - I guess I need to get mine updated!
- ed
OH. PHEW. @KineticLensman states this isn't quite the case in another response here. I did wodner why none of the hire companies had said anything!
Obviously the NIR was the big deal but nobody cared about that.