What about your country fellow HNer, how do elections work there ?
I'd prefer disinterested people counting votes for money to fanatics doing it idealistically. But perhaps my bias shines through in the phrasing...
In France the counting process is open and anyone can observe it and report any irregularity. Also the way it is done, you have to have a conspiracy of a least 6 people if you want to meddle the result.
In practice, I've observed that rather than fanatics, volunteers are usually mild people who are just doing the work as a nice sunday activity who doubles as a democratic tradition. They are the same people you see picking up trash or doing other menial work for the community. Of course, my sampling rate is quite low, so take that as a grain of salt.
You get reimbursed some money (I think it is about 60 EUR for like 4 hours of counting, and it lasts until 1 AM often but depends per region). Doing the course before you count yields you another 25 EUR (I only did this once). If it weren't paid, then that'd be discrimination to people who cannot afford to take a day off for something like this (poor people). For us it is already tough as it is to get this show on the road with a young kid.
I can recommend to give it a whirl! You meet different people every time. I recommend to not discuss politics. Some people will try to, but its best to divert away from such. 1) You can't change the outcome anyway 2) Hence its pointless, and can only lead to fractures in the team 3) You and everyone else should aspire to remain neutral to avoid any potential bias.
> They are the same people you see picking up trash or doing other menial work for the community.
Here in NL the people who do that often have community service because they did something illegal and got caught or because they're youth (youth have to do voluntary work during their high school). The amount of people who go mental against plastic on the streets are zero to none, sadly.
I'm curious, what makes it so long ? Is it your voting system, or something else ?
In France, each time I went counting, it was always less than two hours.
> > They are the same people you see picking up trash or doing other menial work for the community.
I'm part of both groups of people ;).
[1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_op_de_inlichtingen-_en_vei...
Elections aren't on Sunday there? In France all elections are Sunday so that as many people as possible can go vote.
Another method would be to have the election day being a national holiday, like in Israel.
Using the word "fanatics" was needless. I was vaguely thinking of the idea that "nobody who wants to be president should ever be allowed to".
I don't doubt the unpaid French system works well. I'm happy to report the paid Swedish system also works well.
There might not be much for us to fight about. Sorry :)
You are supposed to get fined if you fail to show up and you were chosen but it's rarely applied except for the chief (president is the term) (who is also chosen at random) of the voting booths.
Voting is mandatory in Belgium so it kinda/maybe make sense to pick people among the population.
You are compensated for the day's work but not much.
I'd rather have random citizen do that job than civil servants.
I forget which constituency always returns first, but they make it a point of civic pride to do so; most of the staff doing the count are bank tellers.
There are some very strict rules nothing with the candidates name or party name within a certain radius of the poling station - poll watchers cannot go inside the building unless escorted and so on.
They also make sure the roads are clear on the night between the polling stations and the place where the votes get counted.
I wanted to sign up to work at it, but their password reset form won't send me the email, and the number it says to call just leaves me on hold indefinitely.
In practice though, a lot of folks are hired afterwards through the nonpartisan process.
On the contrary, as an Australian who has been employed in several elections, I've always assumed that paying election staff is both fair and necessary to ensure neutrality and competence.
I mean, I'd quite happily do it for free, but work is work and needs to be compensated as such.
Then I remembered that the senate count at Australian polling booths is a rough approximation, and volunteers could do it easily. Do the French take their ballots to a central office for professionals to check?
Oh gosh, I've just googled it[1], and I'm really glad we don't have such monsters.
French ballots are really straightforward [2], with just one name written on it.
To count them, the volunteers are grouped by tables of four: two people (alternatively) open an envelop containing one ballot, read the result aloud and put on a stack in the center of the table. Then the two remaining people independently note the score. In the end, the ballots and the envelops are re-countered and we check that it matches the sum of the candidate's scores. The ballots (and the envelops) are then stored in sealed bags.
The ballots aren't centrally checked unless a complaint is made by someone, suspecting fraud in their polling station.
In my city, we usually have around 30 people counting, and the process only take one or two hours.
[1]: https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3783/9557893855_135143ce49_b.j... [2]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/France_%...
The nature of preferential/IRV systems requires that ballot papers be counted centrally for the entire district, as distribution of preferences needs to take into account all ballots from all polling places. However, we still conduct a preliminary count in each polling place which is used among other things for media purposes. The full, definitive count is a lengthy process which can take weeks, and is conducted centrally - also including postal ballots and absentee ballots from other parts of the country.
The same staff who are responsible for counting ballots at the end of the day are also responsible for setting up the polling place and issuing ballots throughout the day, which requires some procedural training especially for officers responsible for issuing absentee ballots and things like that. At the polling places I've worked at, we've usually had 1000-2000 voters come through on election day, and would have 5-10 staff working there. Counting and polling place packup usually takes us 3-4 hours.
(Also if you think the ballot paper image you linked was big - I refer you to https://www.flickr.com/photos/heritagefutures/5560654939, which shows 311 candidates running for the New South Wales Legislative Council in 2011.)
Up to $247.94 / day.