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Comment by nradov | Hacker News Reader

Just to be pedantic, in the US market $35K is technically the low end of premium car territory. Actually luxury car territory starts significant higher.

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This is being unnecessarily pedantic. "Premium" is synonymous with "entry-level luxury" (one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_vehicle#Premium_compact...).

Cars in the 35-45k range are routinely referred to colloquially as "luxury" cars. I agree you can quibble with this terminology, but it is absolutely common to refer to these cars as luxury, albeit the absolute low end of luxury.

Significantly higher? A brand new 3 series is 40k, an Audi A4 is 39k, and a C Class is 41k. I’m not even looking at the smaller 4 door models from Audi and Benz which are even less than the Model 3. Maybe Europe gets a smaller 4 door BMW.

I didn’t even count the offerings from Japan which are even less.

An Audi A4 is really not a luxury vehicle in any meaningful sense.

That’s a pretty laughable statement unless you’re in Europe and get the lower trims we don’t. Pretty much all car reviews put the A4 in the luxury sedan segment[1]. Not the segment with the Accord or Camry.

Following your logic the model 3 isn’t a luxury car either.

[1]https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15379432/small-entry-...

Obviously different markets classify "luxury cars" is very different ways leading to the confusion e.g.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/best-cars/top-10-best-lux...

Those are not mid size sedans. Some of those are not even Sedans like the Range Rover and I-Pace.

The point I was trying to make is that different markets define "luxury" in different ways - I don't think anyone here in the UK would call an Audi A4 a luxury car - even at its highest spec level.

Edit: Sort of reminds me of the differences in defining "class" between the US and the UK :-)

That’s a statement that’s easy to make from a privileged position. Luxury is in the eyes of the beholder, and that car costs two thirds of the median income (before tax, healthcare, housing, food) in the USA.

It's the same in Western Europe, the difference is that cheap lease deals and finance have made them affordable for a significant amount of people and so these cars are extremely common. You see more 3 series than Toyota's or Hyundai's.

Are you sure about that? https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46774053

Every sales graph I've ever seen has relatively cheap cars such as the Fiesta, Golf, Corsa, etc. at the top. Not big Mercedes or BMWs.

Yes. I'm not saying that people in the market for a Ford Fiesta are instead going out and buying a 3 series. People who want a hatchback and going out and buying hatchbacks.

But people who want saloons and estate cars are largely buying from the three Germans, and not Japanese or Korean.

I've heard one of the more popular cars people moved from to buy a model 3 is the toyota prius... definitely not a luxury car.

Toyota Prius do not exist in Western Europe outside Uber. They are synonymous with Uber driver and rarely ever bought for private use.

Odd. They are extremely common in California. My office mate has one, her second after giving the first to her daughter. A friend has a motorcycle accident and TWO Prius were involved.

So in the USA, or at least in California they are very common. Part of their popularity is their fleet use makes them direct cheap in the used market, and they tend to be pretty reliable despite the complexity of two separate drive trains.

I think one of the issues is that the Prius starts from $30,000 here - which is quite a lot - and a lot of cheaper, but still economical cars are available for much less.

Ah, they start around $23k here, and available used from fleet use for $12-$13k with 50-60k miles.

Privilege has nothing to do with it. It's a simple matter of market segment definition. It's rather silly to pretend that something like a base model A4 is a luxury vehicle when it contains barely any luxury features beyond the logo on the grill. By comparison a top trim Honda Accord lists for $35K but no one considers that a luxury car.

Personally I drive a cheap car. Average new car prices have gotten crazy high relative to median incomes, enabled by low interest long term financing. A lot of buyers are ending up overextended.

If the A4 isn’t a luxury vehicle, the Model 3 is what?

A Jeep Wrangler will cost you 35k for a base model these days and 40k for a "premium" that well, most people still upgrade and tweak for 10s of thousands of more when they get home.

My volt was super expensive in 2011, but 8 years on it still drives like the day it came from the factory. Unlike my Jeep (which i love) that is only a year old and already has aches and pains and squeeks and of course, drinks gas like its going of style.

BTW, when people shop for cars, the purchase price isn't the TCO. How much fuel will you be using and how much maintenance will you dump into it?

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